Top Law Schools

Target is Biglaw in D.C. UVA places better in D.C. and Penn places better in Biglaw. But it looks like Penn's statistical disadvantage in D.C. may be due to self-selection.

There is something to be said for the self selection factor. But I do personally know of an example of a top DC firm (think Wilmer/GDC/A&P/Skadden) holding Penn students to a higher standard than UVA. In other words, calling back significantly less Penn than UVA (more than would account for the difference in the class sizes at the two schools), and also seeming to only call back Penn LR students and not doing this for UVA. Of course this is completely anecdotal, but something to consider. My basic point, self selection is a big part of it, but I don't think that tells the whole story.

eternalrest wrote:There is something to be said for the self selection factor. But I do personally know of an example of a top DC firm (think Wilmer/GDC/A&P/Skadden) holding Penn students to a higher standard than UVA. In other words, calling back significantly less Penn than UVA (more than would account for the difference in the class sizes at the two schools), and also seeming to only call back Penn LR students and not doing this for UVA. Of course this is completely anecdotal, but something to consider. My basic point, self selection is a big part of it, but I don't think that tells the whole story.

Why do you think that is? Do they think that the Penn student is coming there because he didn't get his first choice in NY?

redblueyellowgreen wrote:

eternalrest wrote:There is something to be said for the self selection factor. But I do personally know of an example of a top DC firm (think Wilmer/GDC/A&P/Skadden) holding Penn students to a higher standard than UVA. In other words, calling back significantly less Penn than UVA (more than would account for the difference in the class sizes at the two schools), and also seeming to only call back Penn LR students and not doing this for UVA. Of course this is completely anecdotal, but something to consider. My basic point, self selection is a big part of it, but I don't think that tells the whole story.

Why do you think that is? Do they think that the Penn student is coming there because he didn't get his first choice in NY?

No expert. I don't attend either school. But I would speculate that that may have something to do with it -- going to UVA may be a good way to signal sincere interest in DC. Probably more important is that they are just more accustomed to hiring UVA grads and have more experience with them. There is also a sizable contingent, for one reason or another, that thinks UVA Law is amazing, as in they would put it just a notch down from Harvard. I have idea why this is but I see something similar in Chicago with C and N, which to me makes even less sense.

In the end though, getting DC is tough from any school.

Ron Howard wrote:

redblueyellowgreen wrote:

eternalrest wrote:There is something to be said for the self selection factor. But I do personally know of an example of a top DC firm (think Wilmer/GDC/A&P/Skadden) holding Penn students to a higher standard than UVA. In other words, calling back significantly less Penn than UVA (more than would account for the difference in the class sizes at the two schools), and also seeming to only call back Penn LR students and not doing this for UVA. Of course this is completely anecdotal, but something to consider. My basic point, self selection is a big part of it, but I don't think that tells the whole story.

Why do you think that is? Do they think that the Penn student is coming there because he didn't get his first choice in NY?

No expert. I don't attend either school. But I would speculate that that may have something to do with it -- going to UVA may be a good way to signal sincere interest in DC. Probably more important is that they are just more accustomed to hiring UVA grads and have more experience with them. There is also a sizable contingent, for one reason or another, that thinks UVA Law is amazing, as in they would put it just a notch down from Harvard. I have idea why this is but I see something similar in Chicago with C and N, which to me makes even less sense.

In the end though, getting DC is tough from any school.

Good point. But wouldn't you say that Penn carries a little more prestige?

Penn probably carries more prestige in the Northeastern US while Virginia gets more attention in the South. Regardless, you have two great choices & no wrong choice based on the information shared in this thread. Assuming equal COA for each law school, then personal preference should decide, in my opinion.

Both are great for placing in to D.C. It's probably best to go with your gut or preferences on location, cost, etc. at this point.

thesealocust wrote:Both are great for placing in to D.C. It's probably best to go with your gut or preferences on location, cost, etc. at this point.

Thanks for the advice. You are correct, COA is essentially the same. I'd rather be in Charlottesville than Philly. I'm also interested in clerking. UVA seems to consistently place more students in clerkships, but, again, that may be due to self-selection. It's a tough call. The ivy league pedigree is attractive, but I'm not sure that it is enough to carry the day.

Perhaps UVA's lower big law employment stats are a product of their own self selection -- that is, more UVA students that would have otherwise gone straight to big law firms have decided to clerk instead, and thus are not included in the big law employment statistics. Self selection isn't just a one way street in favor of Penn.

I think that if you want DC, UVA is the marginally safer bet. Both are great options. Good luck with your decision.

redblueyellowgreen wrote:

thesealocust wrote:Both are great for placing in to D.C. It's probably best to go with your gut or preferences on location, cost, etc. at this point.

Thanks for the advice. You are correct, COA is essentially the same. I'd rather be in Charlottesville than Philly. I'm also interested in clerking. UVA seems to consistently place more students in clerkships, but, again, that may be due to self-selection. It's a tough call. The ivy league pedigree is attractive, but I'm not sure that it is enough to carry the day.

Ivy Leage pedigree won't mean anything, for your purposes the schools have nearly identical reputations. If you'd rather be in Charlottesville than Philly that's a good enough reason to pull the trigger given what you've posted so far.

Congrats and good luck either way!

Thanks for the advice guys!