Penn v. NYU v. Chicago Forum

[Jmart082]

Another approach: Research the law firm bios of Holland & Knight attorneys.

P.S. Among the three options, Chicago is the safest, in my opinion.

Greenberg Traurig is another strong firm here in FL worth doing research on as well. Still say Chicago, doe.

[SowhatsNU]

Hey guys, thanks for all the advice thus far, and sorry I didn't post I was a transfer (I just assumed...you know...being in the transfer part of the forum and all)

Thanks for the points about NYC, and I know that cuts me off a bunch, but I guess id like to know if anyone has experience in terms of the mobility of the two degrees. Does NYU place well outside of NY? (LST says 70% go to NY but that could be self selecting)

Also everyone talks about T6, is there any basis for that? I mean penn is 7, we're not talking like Charles Barkley School of Law here.

T6, a term invented on TLS, is more of a term for admission standards than anything else, and it signals "elite" employment more than simply big law employment. Penn and Cornell have big law employment on par with the T6. But I would say the T6 is still superior in that "elite" firms will dig deeper into the class. To the extent that elite firms have better exit options, one would be wise to chose a T6 at equal cost over a non-T6.

Since you don't want to work in New York, I strongly recommend Chicago. It will likely give you the best options outside of NYC, and probably outside of of the NE as well. Chicago is probably the most portable of the three schools, and I think it is the best choice, though non are bad.

Is it worth the added cost of living in NY to attend NYU over Penn? In terms of Chicago, I was under the impression that it's boost was in clerkships, not big law, and they don't seem to place as well as penn, altho I'm just basing this off of law school transparency, which only factors size of the firm and it's salary, not it's prestige.

That being said, I doubt transfers have much if a shot at all at the more prestigious firms anyway, so then what's the real difference?

[SowhatsNU]

Another approach: Research the law firm bios of Holland & Knight attorneys.

P.S. Among the three options, Chicago is the safest, in my opinion.

Greenberg Traurig is another strong firm here in FL worth doing research on as well. Still say Chicago, doe.

Thanks! I was actually looking Into that firm specifically a few days ago and would be really interested!

[Jmart082]

Another approach: Research the law firm bios of Holland & Knight attorneys.

P.S. Among the three options, Chicago is the safest, in my opinion.

Greenberg Traurig is another strong firm here in FL worth doing research on as well. Still say Chicago, doe.

Thanks! I was actually looking Into that firm specifically a few days ago and would be really interested!

I'd rank them ahead of Holland and Knight if you're looking at Miami, specifically. No prob, happy to help!

[chuckbass]

You have a shot at the most prestigious firms, but again all transfers aren't equal.

[SowhatsNU]

(Not OP btw, sorry if that caused any confusion, just in a similar situation)

[Anonymous User]

No worries, so consensus is UofC>NYU>Penn? And main difference is just I'll have a better chance at the elite firms?

[abl]

No worries, so consensus is UofC>NYU>Penn? And main difference is just I'll have a better chance at the elite firms?

The main difference between Chicago and NYU is living in Chicago vs. living in NYC. That's going to manifest in more ways than merely COL, and the extra couple thousand dollars a year you'll spend in NYC will likely be dwarfed by how well you'll thrive in NYC or Chicago. Similarly, there are fairly significant cultural differences between Chicago and NYU.

I agree that the main placement advantage of CN over UPenn is in the selectivity of firms that'll be open to you. You'll have more of a chance at the more selective firms and boutiques. That may not mean much if you're going to Florida, where none of the firms are in that "most selective" tier and whatever connections you have will matter more than the marginal difference between CN and Penn.

I would put some stock into LST numbers when comparing schools, but not too much. Any difference between NYU and Chicago, for example, is more likely to be an artifact of self selection or a particular trend in one particular class, than it is some real difference between the schools. If you want to look for real differences, look at longer-term number (placement over 5 years or longer), or clerkship numbers (which give you a sense of that school's elite placement power--which likely is reflected in its less elite placement as well (e.g., a school well-respected by judges is also probably well-respected by firms)).

[Paragon]

Hey I'm in the same boat debating between NYU and Penn, didn't apply to Chicago. I am having a heck of a time making the decision. I would love to live in either NYC or Philly. Where is the data that says NYU places students in more "elite" firms? Also, any others care to comment on the difference between the LST big law employment statistics? Penn's has a 6.6% higher placement in big law, does everyone think that is just year-to-year trends/personal preferences in career selection? Finally, does anyone know if it is hard for a transfer to get an MBA at Wharton? Help!!

[Doeydo42]

Hey I'm in the same boat debating between NYU and Penn, didn't apply to Chicago. I am having a heck of a time making the decision. I would love to live in either NYC or Philly. Where is the data that says NYU places students in more "elite" firms? Also, any others care to comment on the difference between the LST big law employment statistics? Penn's has a 6.6% higher placement in big law, does everyone think that is just year-to-year trends/personal preferences in career selection? Finally, does anyone know if it is hard for a transfer to get an MBA at Wharton? Help!!

They have a joint MBA/jd program, but you have to apply into that as a 0L. As a penn law student, you can get a non-degree "certificate" from Wharton after taking a certain number of classes there, but it's just a notation on your transcript that you took those classes (I've known some folks who were frustrated to find out that the Wharton classes also didn't count toward their Penn GPAs). If you're asking whether a Penn Law degree would help you get into the Wharton MBA program after law school, I'd image that any law degree from a top school would help along those lines, if you wanted to go that route.

FWIW, I don't think there are many people at Penn who also got into NYU.

[Anonymous User]

That seems strange considering NYU takes 4x the amount of transfer students that Penn does

[Ron Howard]

Hey I'm in the same boat debating between NYU and Penn, didn't apply to Chicago. I am having a heck of a time making the decision. I would love to live in either NYC or Philly. Where is the data that says NYU places students in more "elite" firms? Also, any others care to comment on the difference between the LST big law employment statistics? Penn's has a 6.6% higher placement in big law, does everyone think that is just year-to-year trends/personal preferences in career selection? Finally, does anyone know if it is hard for a transfer to get an MBA at Wharton? Help!!

Self selection is at play. Many NYU students self sect into public interest, while Penn students, as group, seem to care far more about making the big bucks. Also, many, if not all, elite firms will dig deeper into NYU's class. If you find that you like both about equally, I would go with NYU unless the cost difference is significant.

FD: I don't attend either, but my grandma went to NYU (not for law though).

[Clearly]

Hey guys, thanks for all the advice thus far, and sorry I didn't post I was a transfer (I just assumed...you know...being in the transfer part of the forum and all)

Thanks for the points about NYC, and I know that cuts me off a bunch, but I guess id like to know if anyone has experience in terms of the mobility of the two degrees. Does NYU place well outside of NY? (LST says 70% go to NY but that could be self selecting)

Also everyone talks about T6, is there any basis for that? I mean penn is 7, we're not talking like Charles Barkley School of Law here.

T6, a term invented on TLS, is more of a term for admission standards than anything else, and it signals "elite" employment more than simply big law employment. Penn and Cornell have big law employment on par with the T6. But I would say the T6 is still superior in that "elite" firms will dig deeper into the class. To the extent that elite firms have better exit options, one would be wise to chose a T6 at equal cost over a non-T6.

Since you don't want to work in New York, I strongly recommend Chicago. It will likely give you the best options outside of NYC, and probably outside of of the NE as well. Chicago is probably the most portable of the three schools, and I think it is the best choice, though non are bad.

Not actually true, at least in Penn's case.