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Hi guys -

Fingers crossed, I'm hoping to repeat my last semester's performance and transfer to HYS next year. I was looking at the timing of OCI at my current school (lower T-14) compared to HYS, when I noticed some potential issues. Could someone clarify?

1) When do you receive notice of whether you've been accepted or dinged at your transfer school? My current school has an OCI that is earlier than any of HYS by about a week, and that isn't even taking into account the need to submit bids beforehand (mid July). Will you be able to hear back in time to bid and attend OCI at the transfer school? Or, will I end up having to OCI at my current school and then transferring to the new school at the beginning of the semester?

2) If you end up being forced into OCI at your old school due to timing issues, is there any point in transferring for better job prospects? Since most firm jobs come out of 2L SA positions, and you get locked into those during OCI, I'm confused about people suggesting that transferring will help your employment prospects.

Sorry if some of this is pretty basic. I appreciate your help!

Top 10% at your T14 will get you the same BigLaw jobs as HYS, because you'll be viewed as your previous school/class rank.

The reason that job prospects improve with transferring is because most students are looking to transfer into the T14 from a T1/T2. That is not the case in your situation.

All of the T14 (except Cornell) hold bidding until transfers have submitted. If you bid at your old school, you won't be locked in if you're accepted.

Usually acceptances for transfer come between mid-June to Mid-July. Consensus is that if you don't hear back by the last week of July (~July 22), then you're probably not accepted. You should apply ASAP to ensure you're best chance at being in the first or second round of admits.

I have no opinion as to whether transferring in your situation is worth it.

Yea the main reason (from my understanding) why people transfer is because people want more exposure to Big Law firms. OCI is the best way to get biglaw versus mass mail. For example, at my current school: only one V10 comes to campus and about 4 do resume collect. Buddy of mine transferred to a T6 school, where the volume of BigLaw firms present was MUCH higher, therefore it is easier to get in front of Big Law firms and not have to rely on one or two perfect interviews.

My buddy was a top 5-7%er at my school and got Biglaw at his new school in a secondary market right near a major market. Of the top 5% at my school who stayed, 3 got Biglaw jobs. Only one got a major market job. This is because there just weren't enough firms at my school to support many 2L SA positions. Since you're at a T14, there likely are going to be a lot of big firms at OCI, so you'll be looking good if you keep up grades and stay at your current school.

KD35 wrote:Yea the main reason (from my understanding) why people transfer is because people want more exposure to Big Law firms. OCI is the best way to get biglaw versus mass mail. For example, at my current school: only one V10 comes to campus and about 4 do resume collect. Buddy of mine transferred to a T6 school, where the volume of BigLaw firms present was MUCH higher, therefore it is easier to get in front of Big Law firms and not have to rely on one or two perfect interviews.

My buddy was a top 5-7%er at my school and got Biglaw at his new school in a secondary market right near a major market. Of the top 5% at my school who stayed, 3 got Biglaw jobs. Only one got a major market job. This is because there just weren't enough firms at my school to support many 2L SA positions. Since you're at a T14, there likely are going to be a lot of big firms at OCI, so you'll be looking good if you keep up grades and stay at your current school.

+1. Also, I think an understated reason for transferring from non-T14 to T14 is difference of OCS departments. The OCS counselors at my CCN are absolutely phenomenal. Because most kids do well at OCI, they have more time to spend on kids who are struggling to find a position. For me, they requested updates every week about my progress and even made calls on my behalf to the law firms that I was most interested in. One of these calls led to a V50 offer. Although I ultimately accepted a different offer, I credit my OCS for my success.

CounselorNebby wrote:Top 10% at your T14 will get you the same BigLaw jobs as HYS, because you'll be viewed as your previous school/class rank.

The reason that job prospects improve with transferring is because most students are looking to transfer into the T14 from a T1/T2. That is not the case in your situation.

All of the T14 (except Cornell) hold bidding until transfers have submitted. If you bid at your old school, you won't be locked in if you're accepted.

Usually acceptances for transfer come between mid-June to Mid-July. Consensus is that if you don't hear back by the last week of July (~July 22), then you're probably not accepted. You should apply ASAP to ensure you're best chance at being in the first or second round of admits.

I have no opinion as to whether transferring in your situation is worth it.

Appreciate this. A couple of followups:

1) If I'm viewed at HYS as my previous school/rank, and say I'm a top 10% candidate at a lower T-14, I'm assuming I will be viewed less favorably than a top 10% candidate at HYS, correct? And in your opinion, a transfer to HYS will basically have zero advantages at OCI (in terms of the quality of employers now available) compared to staying at a lower T-14 with top 10%?

2) You mentioned applying ASAP to ensure that I'm in the first few rounds of admits. Does this mean that I should be sending my material out in March and April when the transfer apps come out (before I even have any grades)?

3) So to clarify, the actual process would then be - I apply to HYS, bid at my old school while waiting for my results, and if I get accepted in mid-July, I immediately withdraw from my old school, matriculate to my the new school, and then bid/OCI at the new school?

Anonymous User wrote:

CounselorNebby wrote:Top 10% at your T14 will get you the same BigLaw jobs as HYS, because you'll be viewed as your previous school/class rank.

The reason that job prospects improve with transferring is because most students are looking to transfer into the T14 from a T1/T2. That is not the case in your situation.

All of the T14 (except Cornell) hold bidding until transfers have submitted. If you bid at your old school, you won't be locked in if you're accepted.

Usually acceptances for transfer come between mid-June to Mid-July. Consensus is that if you don't hear back by the last week of July (~July 22), then you're probably not accepted. You should apply ASAP to ensure you're best chance at being in the first or second round of admits.

I have no opinion as to whether transferring in your situation is worth it.

Appreciate this. A couple of followups:

1) If I'm viewed at HYS as my previous school/rank, and say I'm a top 10% candidate at a lower T-14, I'm assuming I will be viewed less favorably than a top 10% candidate at HYS, correct? And in your opinion, a transfer to HYS will basically have zero advantages at OCI (in terms of the quality of employers now available) compared to staying at a lower T-14 with top 10%?

2) You mentioned applying ASAP to ensure that I'm in the first few rounds of admits. Does this mean that I should be sending my material out in March and April when the transfer apps come out (before I even have any grades)?

3) So to clarify, the actual process would then be - I apply to HYS, bid at my old school while waiting for my results, and if I get accepted in mid-July, I immediately withdraw from my old school, matriculate to my the new school, and then bid/OCI at the new school?

1) Yes.

2) Yes. You're smart enough and can figure out when it is feasible to have the materials all sent in and in what manner. The goal is to essentially have everything submitted before your grades come out, therefore the last thing you have to worry about is your LS sending the transcripts to your anticipated schools.

3) Yes.

CounselorNebby wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

CounselorNebby wrote:Top 10% at your T14 will get you the same BigLaw jobs as HYS, because you'll be viewed as your previous school/class rank.

The reason that job prospects improve with transferring is because most students are looking to transfer into the T14 from a T1/T2. That is not the case in your situation.

All of the T14 (except Cornell) hold bidding until transfers have submitted. If you bid at your old school, you won't be locked in if you're accepted.

Usually acceptances for transfer come between mid-June to Mid-July. Consensus is that if you don't hear back by the last week of July (~July 22), then you're probably not accepted. You should apply ASAP to ensure you're best chance at being in the first or second round of admits.

I have no opinion as to whether transferring in your situation is worth it.

Appreciate this. A couple of followups:

1) If I'm viewed at HYS as my previous school/rank, and say I'm a top 10% candidate at a lower T-14, I'm assuming I will be viewed less favorably than a top 10% candidate at HYS, correct? And in your opinion, a transfer to HYS will basically have zero advantages at OCI (in terms of the quality of employers now available) compared to staying at a lower T-14 with top 10%?

2) You mentioned applying ASAP to ensure that I'm in the first few rounds of admits. Does this mean that I should be sending my material out in March and April when the transfer apps come out (before I even have any grades)?

3) So to clarify, the actual process would then be - I apply to HYS, bid at my old school while waiting for my results, and if I get accepted in mid-July, I immediately withdraw from my old school, matriculate to my the new school, and then bid/OCI at the new school?

1) Yes.

2) Yes. You're smart enough and can figure out when it is feasible to have the materials all sent in and in what manner. The goal is to essentially have everything submitted before your grades come out, therefore the last thing you have to worry about is your LS sending the transcripts to your anticipated schools.

3) Yes.

Okay, appreciate the assist!

Note that at HYS there are no real grades/GPAS until it comes latin honors time, so no cutoffs at OCI.

I think the only difference between HYS and other t-14s may be regional networks (if you're at B but are thinking East Coast long term, or at V and thinking CA, etc.), and exit options from firms (specifically in house). But short term, you have nothing to worry about job wise.

MagicMike80 wrote:Note that at HYS there are no real grades/GPAS until it comes latin honors time, so no cutoffs at OCI.

I think the only difference between HYS and other t-14s may be regional networks (if you're at B but are thinking East Coast long term, or at V and thinking CA, etc.), and exit options from firms (specifically in house). But short term, you have nothing to worry about job wise.

I'm on the eastern side of the US trying to get back to CA. Based on the feedback I've gotten here, it seems like anyone who can transfer to HYS (I would love to get S given my CA preferences) out of a lower T-14 would be capable of getting the equivalent job opportunities by staying.

The only issue I see is that at a place like S, there are simply more CA based firms recruiting. I think that more than half of the graduates at S stay in CA. While the same top firms might recruit top students at my school, I don't know if there are as many opportunities at these top firms within CA. This is basically my primary concern, although it's not too worrisome.

Regarding HYS's grading policy - do you think that's advantageous or disadvantageous to transfers? I'm guessing firms can pretty much just guesstimate/translate the GPA from a transfer compared with the weird scales of HYS.

Anonymous User wrote:

MagicMike80 wrote:Note that at HYS there are no real grades/GPAS until it comes latin honors time, so no cutoffs at OCI.

I think the only difference between HYS and other t-14s may be regional networks (if you're at B but are thinking East Coast long term, or at V and thinking CA, etc.), and exit options from firms (specifically in house). But short term, you have nothing to worry about job wise.

I'm on the eastern side of the US trying to get back to CA. Based on the feedback I've gotten here, it seems like anyone who can transfer to HYS (I would love to get S given my CA preferences) out of a lower T-14 would be capable of getting the equivalent job opportunities by staying.

The only issue I see is that at a place like S, there are simply more CA based firms recruiting. I think that more than half of the graduates at S stay in CA. While the same top firms might recruit top students at my school, I don't know if there are as many opportunities at these top firms within CA. This is basically my primary concern, although it's not too worrisome.

Regarding HYS's grading policy - do you think that's advantageous or disadvantageous to transfers? I'm guessing firms can pretty much just guesstimate/translate the GPA from a transfer compared with the weird scales of HYS.

Firms will treat you basically as if you were a student at your original school. So if you are top 10% at Duke, the firm will treat you (and maybe even compare you to) other top 10% Duke people. The only benefit, then, is the access to more CA firms at HYS OCI. You could just go to the bay area fair or whatever else CA regional OCIs. If you PM me I can give you some more info about intra-t14 transfer OCI if you want.

Just like the students, firms don't really have any idea what the mix of Hs and Ps is to correspond to a given percentage line. They can tell good from bad, and great from good, but it's not very granular. Transfers as a whole did better than the general student body at my school (based on vault rankings). I don't know exactly how the percentages correlate, but having a transcript full of As and A+s is definitely not a disadvantage. PM me for specific circle-jerking anecdotes.