Is it really worth it? T4 to boalt Forum

[justgottabezen]

I was accepted to boalt but OCI did not go well and I'm afraid of being stuck with over $200k in debt with no job prospects. So far I've gotten zero callbacks and many rejections. If I don't transfer I will likely be valedictorian of my class at a tier 4, so I wonder if it's better to stay and be a big fish in a small pond. I may just be getting cold feet because I'm not a fan of Cali and I miss my family and friends back home, but still, thoughts?

[Nomo]

How much debt at the current school and how much debt at Boalt?

[Nova]

what school r u at

how much debt will u be in if u stay

what r ur career goals

where do u want to practice

[JamMasterJ]

Same questions as Nova, but also, will Boalt's loan repayment program cover you if you strike out overall?

[FSK]

You sure you're going to strike out?

Maybe try going 1 semester & mass-mailing like crazy from here on out......

[justgottabezen]

How much debt at the current school and how much debt at Boalt?

about 60,000 at current school, probably over $200,000 at boalt

[justgottabezen]

what school r u at

how much debt will u be in if u stay

what r ur career goals

where do u want to practice

I don't know what kind of law I want to practice but I'm considering work as a PD. After OCI I don't know that I'd ultimately want to work at any of those firms. I don't think I'd be happy doing that kind of work. I can't rely on getting a biglaw job anyway. Although I've known of top students at my current school getting jobs at places like Greenberg and Holland and Knight.

[justgottabezen]

Same questions as Nova, but also, will Boalt's loan repayment program cover you if you strike out overall?

I don't know. That's another thing. I can never get ahold of anyone in the financial aid dept. at boalt to talk to me about their lrap. The website is not clear and the only explanations I can find are outdated.I think they altered the program within the past year or two. The admin at my school actually returns your calls and emails immediately. Maybe I'm just spoiled by small school administration, but it seems like they do not care at all about the students at boalt. Either that or they really don;t like to help transfers? I donno.

[moneybagsphd]

How much debt at the current school and how much debt at Boalt?

about 60,000 at current school, probably over $200,000 at boalt

1. Boalt or bust b/c 60k in debt from a TTTT is a joke.
2. Do you think anyone gives a shit that you were valedictorian of Cooley, TJSL, Nova, or whatever ?
3. LJL at not liking Cali.

[justgottabezen]

How much debt at the current school and how much debt at Boalt?

about 60,000 at current school, probably over $200,000 at boalt

1. Boalt or bust b/c 60k in debt from a TTTT is a joke.
2. Do you think anyone gives a shit that you were valedictorian of Cooley, TJSL, Nova, or whatever ?
3. LJL at not liking Cali.

I appreciate your opinion but I think you're exaggerating a bit.
1. 60k is living expenses for three years. I'm paying at least that anywhere.
2. yes
3. Every person I've interacted with has been pretentious and snooty. Its impossible to find housing unless you've got months to look or 2k a month to spend on rent. Career services at boalt is a joke. No one is available most of the time and when they are they give you the most generic responses of life. That actually applies across the board, not just to career services.

At my current school I'd have tuition basically free, but at boalt I'm paying sticker. Didn't you say you'd never pay sticker?

[ymmv]

How much debt at the current school and how much debt at Boalt?

about 60,000 at current school, probably over $200,000 at boalt

1. Boalt or bust b/c 60k in debt from a TTTT is a joke.
2. Do you think anyone gives a shit that you were valedictorian of Cooley, TJSL, Nova, or whatever ?
3. LJL at not liking Cali.

I appreciate your opinion but I think you're exaggerating a bit.
1. 60k is living expenses for three years. I'm paying at least that anywhere.
2. yes
3. Every person I've interacted with has been pretentious and snooty. Its impossible to find housing unless you've got months to look or 2k a month to spend on rent. Career services at boalt is a joke. No one is available most of the time and when they are they give you the most generic responses of life. That actually applies across the board, not just to career services.

At my current school I'd have tuition basically free, but at boalt I'm paying sticker. Didn't you say you'd never pay sticker?

Sticker at Boalt probably leaves you in a better situation than $60k at a T4. Or you could just drop out and not give into the sunk costs mentality.

[pancakes3]

You'll only be paying 2 years of sticker at Boalt and come out with 160k + the current 20k ish of debt so it's not "true" sticker. Still absurdly expensive though.

FWIW, I think you should go Boalt. Sounds like you're a little bummed at not doing well at OCI but how would going back to the T4 now help with your summer job prospects?

[Nomo]

It seems to me that because Boalt's lrap is tied to IBR the most money Boalt would ever provide is around $3000. Its probably worth it to do some actual math, but I think that's a pretty good estimate. The real reason your debt payments are small on boalt's LRAP is that IBR is making them small. Really small. Like way smaller than the interest you are accruing.

Is 2-3k per year really worth adding all that debt? I don't think so. There might be other reasons to attend Boalt, but lrap's that integrate with IBR really don't give you all that much.

[moneybagsphd]

I appreciate your opinion but I think you're exaggerating a bit.
1. 60k is living expenses for three years. I'm paying at least that anywhere.
2. yes
3. Every person I've interacted with has been pretentious and snooty. Its impossible to find housing unless you've got months to look or 2k a month to spend on rent. Career services at boalt is a joke. No one is available most of the time and when they are they give you the most generic responses of life. That actually applies across the board, not just to career services.

At my current school I'd have tuition basically free, but at boalt I'm paying sticker. Didn't you say you'd never pay sticker?

1. Debt is debt, it doesn't matter whether it's for COL or tuition. My point was that there is a stronger argument for taking out 200k in debt for Boalt than 60k for a T4.

Sticker at Boalt probably leaves you in a better situation than $60k at a T4. Or you could just drop out and not give into the sunk costs mentality.

2. I'm not sure this is worth debating
3. I think you're exaggerating a bit. If everyone you met was pretentious and snooty, you haven't met enough people. If you need advice re: housing, pm me bc that's just not true. I don't go to Boalt, so I can't comment on career services.

[justgottabezen]

You'll only be paying 2 years of sticker at Boalt and come out with 160k + the current 20k ish of debt so it's not "true" sticker. Still absurdly expensive though.

FWIW, I think you should go Boalt. Sounds like you're a little bummed at not doing well at OCI but how would going back to the T4 now help with your summer job prospects?

I'm not from Cali and don't know anyone. Back home I have a network, and I could probably get a job if I spend the next two years networking there. That's my logic I guess.

[justgottabezen]

I appreciate your opinion but I think you're exaggerating a bit.
1. 60k is living expenses for three years. I'm paying at least that anywhere.
2. yes
3. Every person I've interacted with has been pretentious and snooty. Its impossible to find housing unless you've got months to look or 2k a month to spend on rent. Career services at boalt is a joke. No one is available most of the time and when they are they give you the most generic responses of life. That actually applies across the board, not just to career services.

At my current school I'd have tuition basically free, but at boalt I'm paying sticker. Didn't you say you'd never pay sticker?

1. Debt is debt, it doesn't matter whether it's for COL or tuition. My point was that there is a stronger argument for taking out 200k in debt for Boalt than 60k for a T4.

What if I'm 200k in debt and unemployed? I'm not really wanting to get a biglaw job. I think I would have to if I wanted to pay off 200k though. If I go back to my tier 4 I can always get a job back home as a PD. That's not going to do much for me if I'm 200k in debt, but it wouldn't be awful if I was only 60k in the hole. The job market isn't awesome no matter where you go, right?

[deadpanic]

I appreciate your opinion but I think you're exaggerating a bit.
1. 60k is living expenses for three years. I'm paying at least that anywhere.
2. yes
3. Every person I've interacted with has been pretentious and snooty. Its impossible to find housing unless you've got months to look or 2k a month to spend on rent. Career services at boalt is a joke. No one is available most of the time and when they are they give you the most generic responses of life. That actually applies across the board, not just to career services.

At my current school I'd have tuition basically free, but at boalt I'm paying sticker. Didn't you say you'd never pay sticker?

1. Debt is debt, it doesn't matter whether it's for COL or tuition. My point was that there is a stronger argument for taking out 200k in debt for Boalt than 60k for a T4.

What if I'm 200k in debt and unemployed? I'm not really wanting to get a biglaw job. I think I would have to if I wanted to pay off 200k though. If I go back to my tier 4 I can always get a job back home as a PD. That's not going to do much for me if I'm 200k in debt, but it wouldn't be awful if I was only 60k in the hole. The job market isn't awesome no matter where you go, right?

How are you so sure you can get a job as a PD? A lot of law students (and lay people) think of PD as being a back-up job that can easily be obtained and there are a lot of variables that make that not the case (mainly funding and timing).

If you are 100% sure that you can become a PD and that is what you want to do, then you should stick with your TTTT and it really isn't a dilemma. But Gov't gigs like PDs are virtually never a sure thing.

[Charger]

Genuine question: is it even possible to go back to your old school without incurring any costs at Berkeley? If not, what costs will be lost? I think that's something to think about. If they're not willing to refund tuition for fall and/or the entire 2L year, then wtf is the point of leaving.

[TTRansfer]

Transfer.

[mandimeoutof10]

Transfer and don't look back. Franky, your job prospect at your old school, even at the very top are scary and your grades can (and often do) slip. No, I'm not saying you'll all of a sudden be a median student but how comfortable if you slip to just outside the top 10% at your current school (very possible)? Bite the bullet and transfer then massmail the shit out of your top markets.

[justgottabezen]

I appreciate your opinion but I think you're exaggerating a bit.
1. 60k is living expenses for three years. I'm paying at least that anywhere.
2. yes
3. Every person I've interacted with has been pretentious and snooty. Its impossible to find housing unless you've got months to look or 2k a month to spend on rent. Career services at boalt is a joke. No one is available most of the time and when they are they give you the most generic responses of life. That actually applies across the board, not just to career services.

At my current school I'd have tuition basically free, but at boalt I'm paying sticker. Didn't you say you'd never pay sticker?

1. Debt is debt, it doesn't matter whether it's for COL or tuition. My point was that there is a stronger argument for taking out 200k in debt for Boalt than 60k for a T4.

What if I'm 200k in debt and unemployed? I'm not really wanting to get a biglaw job. I think I would have to if I wanted to pay off 200k though. If I go back to my tier 4 I can always get a job back home as a PD. That's not going to do much for me if I'm 200k in debt, but it wouldn't be awful if I was only 60k in the hole. The job market isn't awesome no matter where you go, right?

How are you so sure you can get a job as a PD? A lot of law students (and lay people) think of PD as being a back-up job that can easily be obtained and there are a lot of variables that make that not the case (mainly funding and timing).

If you are 100% sure that you can become a PD and that is what you want to do, then you should stick with your TTTT and it really isn't a dilemma. But Gov't gigs like PDs are virtually never a sure thing.

Yea, I know because I have personal connections back home.

[justgottabezen]

Genuine question: is it even possible to go back to your old school without incurring any costs at Berkeley? If not, what costs will be lost? I think that's something to think about. If they're not willing to refund tuition for fall and/or the entire 2L year, then wtf is the point of leaving.

Classes haven't started yet and I'm not registered, so I don't see why not. Good thinking though.

[moneybagsphd]

Genuine question: is it even possible to go back to your old school without incurring any costs at Berkeley? If not, what costs will be lost? I think that's something to think about. If they're not willing to refund tuition for fall and/or the entire 2L year, then wtf is the point of leaving.

Classes haven't started yet and I'm not registered, so I don't see why not. Good thinking though.

Cool, just chill at your T4 then. Ignore everyone's advice. Clearly, you're seeking validation for your decision not to transfer. No one is going to give you that since it's an objectively TERRIBLE decision.

[jess]

.

[mandimeoutof10]

People from my old school with horrible ranks got jobs (jobs id love to have)

There are a TON of other factors at play here. Connections etc...