Top Law Schools

Is it worth it to transfer from a SoCal T2 (which dropped almost 20 spots in the rankings) to UCLA/USC if I don't want BigLaw? That seems to be the focus. I'd love to do government/criminal/public interest. I`m worried these types of fields don't even care where you went to school.

I'd be taking out very little debt (SO funding) but it is still money spent at the end of the day.

Anyone in a similar situation?

Transferring is a biglawl game. No reason to transfer if you want small law/local gov/PI work unless your transfer school is the same cost or less expensive as your current school. There might be exceptions for transfers into HYS for certain fed gov ambitions, but it doesn't apply to UCLA/USC.

Do you have a scholarship at your current school?

transferror wrote:Transferring is a biglawl game. No reason to transfer if you want small law/local gov/PI work unless your transfer school is the same cost or less expensive as your current school. There might be exceptions for transfers into HYS for certain fed gov ambitions, but it doesn't apply to UCLA/USC.

Do you have a scholarship at your current school?

Yes, although they didn't bump me as much as I was hoping. COA at current school will be about 40k, versus 100k at UCLA/USC

I am in a similar situation. I am not in a hurry to go big law, but I am transferring from a TTTT to a Top 20 largely because if I decide to work in a big firm later, I want to know I have the options and that my TTTT degree isn't holding me back. Also, in such a prestige conscious field, I will feel better on a personal level about having a degree from my transfer school than my 1L institution, despite the increase in debt. One of the first questions anyone asks me when I mention law school, and I presume this will not stop in the future, is: "Where did/do you go to law school?" So in some way, it could potentially always matter where you went to school, and individuals will form an opinion of you sometimes based solely on that information. Go where you will feel most comfortable saying you graduated from, and where you will have the best options across the board since your interests may change down the road.

Yes, you should transfer. You are at a terrible school with the chance to go to a better school in a highly competitive market. California seems to be one of the most difficult places to get a job.
As I said in your other thread, you seem incredibly naive about the job market.

rogerrogerson wrote:I am in a similar situation. I am not in a hurry to go big law, but I am transferring from a TTTT to a Top 20 largely because if I decide to work in a big firm later, I want to know I have the options and that my TTTT degree isn't holding me back. Also, in such a prestige conscious field, I will feel better on a personal level about having a degree from my transfer school than my 1L institution, despite the increase in debt. One of the first questions anyone asks me when I mention law school, and I presume this will not stop in the future, is: "Where did/do you go to law school?" So in some way, it could potentially always matter where you went to school, and individuals will form an opinion of you sometimes based solely on that information. Go where you will feel most comfortable saying you graduated from, and where you will have the best options across the board since your interests may change down the road.

I don't agree with this - there is a pretty big gap in placement power b/t a locally respected TT and a TTTT dump. For instance, I don't think it would be worth it for OP to transfer from Pepperdine/San Diego to UCLA/USC, but it could definitely be worth it from Golden Gate. If OP doesn't want biglaw, this prestige bullshit doesn't matter. For local gov/PI work, most of their attorneys went to the local law school, and those jobs care far less about pedigree than demonstrated interest in their cause and local roots.

Also, as far as your degree helping down the road, you don't just "decide to work in a big firm later." Those jobs are almost exclusively for fresh grads and ppl lateraling from one big firm to the next, and even if you were one of the lucky few to make it into biglaw from a small firm or DA/AG/PD office, your school would most certainly be a moot point at that time and your decision based on an outstanding trial record or reputation and lucky timing.

OP, stay put with that 40k COA

transferror wrote:

rogerrogerson wrote:I am in a similar situation. I am not in a hurry to go big law, but I am transferring from a TTTT to a Top 20 largely because if I decide to work in a big firm later, I want to know I have the options and that my TTTT degree isn't holding me back. Also, in such a prestige conscious field, I will feel better on a personal level about having a degree from my transfer school than my 1L institution, despite the increase in debt. One of the first questions anyone asks me when I mention law school, and I presume this will not stop in the future, is: "Where did/do you go to law school?" So in some way, it could potentially always matter where you went to school, and individuals will form an opinion of you sometimes based solely on that information. Go where you will feel most comfortable saying you graduated from, and where you will have the best options across the board since your interests may change down the road.

I don't agree with this - there is a pretty big gap in placement power b/t a locally respected TT and a TTTT dump. For instance, I don't think it would be worth it for OP to transfer from Pepperdine/San Diego to UCLA/USC, but it could definitely be worth it from Golden Gate. If OP doesn't want biglaw, this prestige bullshit doesn't matter. For local gov/PI work, most of their attorneys went to the local law school, and those jobs care far less about pedigree than demonstrated interest in their cause and local roots.

Also, as far as your degree helping down the road, you don't just "decide to work in a big firm later." Those jobs are almost exclusively for fresh grads and ppl lateraling from one big firm to the next, and even if you were one of the lucky few to make it into biglaw from a small firm or DA/AG/PD office, your school would most certainly be a moot point at that time and your decision based on an outstanding trial record or reputation and lucky timing.

OP, stay put with that 40k COA

Isn't OP more likely to find any job from UCLA/ USC?

I see unemployment as a real possibility in OPs future if she stays.

Edit: agree with the "big firm later" as not realistic.

NYSprague wrote:

transferror wrote:

rogerrogerson wrote:I am in a similar situation. I am not in a hurry to go big law, but I am transferring from a TTTT to a Top 20 largely because if I decide to work in a big firm later, I want to know I have the options and that my TTTT degree isn't holding me back. Also, in such a prestige conscious field, I will feel better on a personal level about having a degree from my transfer school than my 1L institution, despite the increase in debt. One of the first questions anyone asks me when I mention law school, and I presume this will not stop in the future, is: "Where did/do you go to law school?" So in some way, it could potentially always matter where you went to school, and individuals will form an opinion of you sometimes based solely on that information. Go where you will feel most comfortable saying you graduated from, and where you will have the best options across the board since your interests may change down the road.

I don't agree with this - there is a pretty big gap in placement power b/t a locally respected TT and a TTTT dump. For instance, I don't think it would be worth it for OP to transfer from Pepperdine/San Diego to UCLA/USC, but it could definitely be worth it from Golden Gate. If OP doesn't want biglaw, this prestige bullshit doesn't matter. For local gov/PI work, most of their attorneys went to the local law school, and those jobs care far less about pedigree than demonstrated interest in their cause and local roots.

Also, as far as your degree helping down the road, you don't just "decide to work in a big firm later." Those jobs are almost exclusively for fresh grads and ppl lateraling from one big firm to the next, and even if you were one of the lucky few to make it into biglaw from a small firm or DA/AG/PD office, your school would most certainly be a moot point at that time and your decision based on an outstanding trial record or reputation and lucky timing.

OP, stay put with that 40k COA

Isn't OP more likely to find any job from UCLA/ USC?

I see unemployment as a real possibility in OPs future if she stays.

Edit: agree with the "big firm later" as not realistic.

More likely to find a job? Not really. It's true that more people at UCLA/USC find jobs (app. 75%) vs Pepperdine/SD (app. 50%), but that doesn't mean those are OPs chances. OP is obviously, at a minimum, in the top 25% of his/her class, and the odds of getting a job at the local DA's office isn't going to increase a dramatic amount from UCLA. Biglaw, yes. Criminal work, no. In all reality, OP will either get the job or miss the job based on strength of application, interview ability, roots in the community - no matter TT vs. UCLA. Spending an extra 60k of his/her SO's $$ for a marginally better, if at all, chance at a job that pays 40-50k doesn't seem prudent.

transferror wrote:

NYSprague wrote:

transferror wrote:

rogerrogerson wrote:I am in a similar situation. I am not in a hurry to go big law, but I am transferring from a TTTT to a Top 20 largely because if I decide to work in a big firm later, I want to know I have the options and that my TTTT degree isn't holding me back. Also, in such a prestige conscious field, I will feel better on a personal level about having a degree from my transfer school than my 1L institution, despite the increase in debt. One of the first questions anyone asks me when I mention law school, and I presume this will not stop in the future, is: "Where did/do you go to law school?" So in some way, it could potentially always matter where you went to school, and individuals will form an opinion of you sometimes based solely on that information. Go where you will feel most comfortable saying you graduated from, and where you will have the best options across the board since your interests may change down the road.

I don't agree with this - there is a pretty big gap in placement power b/t a locally respected TT and a TTTT dump. For instance, I don't think it would be worth it for OP to transfer from Pepperdine/San Diego to UCLA/USC, but it could definitely be worth it from Golden Gate. If OP doesn't want biglaw, this prestige bullshit doesn't matter. For local gov/PI work, most of their attorneys went to the local law school, and those jobs care far less about pedigree than demonstrated interest in their cause and local roots.

Also, as far as your degree helping down the road, you don't just "decide to work in a big firm later." Those jobs are almost exclusively for fresh grads and ppl lateraling from one big firm to the next, and even if you were one of the lucky few to make it into biglaw from a small firm or DA/AG/PD office, your school would most certainly be a moot point at that time and your decision based on an outstanding trial record or reputation and lucky timing.

OP, stay put with that 40k COA

Isn't OP more likely to find any job from UCLA/ USC?

I see unemployment as a real possibility in OPs future if she stays.

Edit: agree with the "big firm later" as not realistic.

More likely to find a job? Not really. It's true that more people at UCLA/USC find jobs (app. 75%) vs Pepperdine/SD (app. 50%), but that doesn't mean those are OPs chances. OP is obviously, at a minimum, in the top 25% of his/her class, and the odds of getting a job at the local DA's office isn't going to increase a dramatic amount from UCLA. Biglaw, yes. Criminal work, no. In all reality, OP will either get the job or miss the job based on strength of application, interview ability, roots in the community - no matter TT vs. UCLA. Spending an extra 60k of his/her SO's $$ for a marginally better, if at all, chance at a job that pays 40-50k doesn't seem prudent.

I was thinking about getting any job at all. I've just read horror stories about how competitive California hiring can be, including government and non profits. But I see your point. If OP doesn't get that DA job, what happens next with hiring?

Also, OP said TTTT transfer, if that matters.

NYSprague wrote:I was thinking about getting any job at all. I've just read horror stories about how competitive California hiring can be, including government and non profits. But I see your point. If OP doesn't get that DA job, what happens next with hiring?

This is at least the protocol in NJ: look for a state clerkship, preferably in the same jurisdiction as your target office, and reapply the next year with 1 year WE under your belt. It's different in NJ because every state judge takes a clerk so it's common and fairly easy to land such a clerkship, but I imagine it can be done elsewhere since state trial-level clerkships aren't in very high demand. The other option is to work as a volunteer attorney (and hopefully snag a fellowship for funding), which I think is fairly common in larger PD/AG offices in major cities, and hope that ends in an offer.

There aren't that many options other than to apply broadly and keep gaining experience however you can get it.

NYSprague wrote:Also, OP said TTTT transfer, if that matters.

It would, but

unclepete wrote:Is it worth it to transfer from a SoCal T2 (which dropped almost 20 spots in the rankings) to UCLA/USC