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What is your opinion?

I’m currently contemplating applying to transfer to NYU. I am interested in Big Law, but I also would not mind working BigGov or PI. My background is PI/Gov experience, so I have already demonstrated the “commitment to public service” part of getting the latter jobs.

I’m T2/Top 5% (GPA: 3.95/4.0)
Two letters of recommendation, both from 1L law professors.

I was accepted to GULC, and given $25k/year in need-based aid. I also applied to Harvard (for the need-aid, and because I couldn’t sleep at night if I didn’t at least try)

I am also contemplating NYU, but they give no need-aid to transfers. Thus, the COA is about $30k/year more than GULC. Is NYU worth the extra $60k of debt?

CounselorNebby wrote:What is your opinion?

I’m currently contemplating applying to transfer to NYU. I am interested in Big Law, but I also would not mind working BigGov or PI. My background is PI/Gov experience, so I have already demonstrated the “commitment to public service” part of getting the latter jobs.

I’m T2/Top 5% (GPA: 3.95/4.0)
Two letters of recommendation, both from 1L law professors.

I was accepted to GULC, and given $25k/year in need-based aid. I also applied to Harvard (for the need-aid, and because I couldn’t sleep at night if I didn’t at least try)

I am also contemplating NYU, but they give no need-aid to transfers. Thus, the COA is about $30k/year more than GULC. Is NYU worth the extra $60k of debt?

What's your COA at current school? If they're giving you any substantial amount of money, you should probably stay at your current school. If you were biglaw or bust I would say take NYU, but it doesn't sound like you're certain enough to justify $140k more in debt. It's a pretty horrifying proposition in any case.

ymmv wrote: What's your COA at current school? If they're giving you any substantial amount of money, you should probably stay at your current school. If you were biglaw or bust I would say take NYU, but it doesn't sound like you're certain enough to justify $140k more in debt. It's a pretty horrifying proposition in any case.

I’m not staying at my current school. You’ll see why in the data below.

COA current school: $110k (LST: 60%; BigLaw: 1%; 21% Under-Employment)
COA GULC: $106k (LST: 84%; BigLaw: 33%; 7% Under-Employment)
COA NYU: $164k (LST: 94%; BigLaw: 50%; 3% Under-Employment)

My struggle is whether or not that increase in debt between GULC and NYU is worth it. As a transfer, I am worried a bit how being a transfer will affect OCI results. I assume my OCI chances are better as a transfer at NYU than GULC.

CounselorNebby wrote:

ymmv wrote: What's your COA at current school? If they're giving you any substantial amount of money, you should probably stay at your current school. If you were biglaw or bust I would say take NYU, but it doesn't sound like you're certain enough to justify $140k more in debt. It's a pretty horrifying proposition in any case.

I’m not staying at my current school. You’ll see why in the data below.

COA current school: $110k (LST: 60%; BigLaw: 1%; 21% Under-Employment)
COA GULC: $106k (LST: 84%; BigLaw: 33%; 7% Under-Employment)
COA NYU: $164k (LST: 94%; BigLaw: 50%; 3% Under-Employment)

My struggle is whether or not that increase in debt between GULC and NYU is worth it. As a transfer, I am worried a bit how being a transfer will affect OCI results. I assume my OCI chances are better as a transfer at NYU than GULC.

How is GULC's LRAP program? I know NYU has an excellent one, which if going PI route might make it a wiser option despite greater COA.
For biglaw, definitely NYU.

Georgetown still places about 41% in big law compared to NYU's about 58% which is still solid, and Georgetown is also well located for government if that is the road you end up deciding to take. Therefore with the solid amount of aid, I believe Georgetown would be the wisest choice and NYU would not be worth the extra debt for COA and the high living expenses
However if Harvard comes knocking, well, you know what to do...

rogerrogerson wrote: However if Harvard comes knocking, well, you know what to do...

rogerrogerson wrote:Georgetown still places about 41% in big law compared to NYU's about 58% which is still solid, and Georgetown is also well located for government if that is the road you end up deciding to take. Therefore with the solid amount of aid, I believe Georgetown would be the wisest choice and NYU would not be worth the extra debt for COA and the high living expenses
However if Harvard comes knocking, well, you know what to do...

That is a nearly 20% point differential in employment outcomes. Personally I would pay $60k more for that reduced risk of unemployment.

But then, transfers are wildcards, and according to some schools of thought OP will be well positioned at OCI in any case. Though I still wouldn't risk it at GULC.

I would say it depends on your tolerance for risk.

GULC is riskier. It's cheaper, but there's a good chance you won't land biglaw. If only 41% of the class gets biglaw, then you basically have a 50/50 shot at biglaw/clerking/biggov/whatever. Add this to the fact that 1) there are a LOT of GULC transfers and 2) transfers probably don't do quite as well at OCI as an average GULC student, and that's a pretty big gamble. But then again, $60k is a LOT of money.

NYU is safer. You'll have to pay more for the opportunity, but you'll have a better chance at landing something you want to do. Since they are ~60% biglaw placement, I'd expect that you'd have a 75/25 shot in landing biglaw/clerking/biggov/whatever. Pretty solid chance. But you're obviously paying for that extra % chance.

One thing you may want to do your best to research is how TRANSFERS perform at OCI at GULC/NYU school. You'll probably only get anecdotes, but they may be worth something. For example, at CLS it is pretty well-established that basically all transfers get biglaw offers through EIP. But I know that isn't necessarily true for some of the other T14s. Before getting into CLS, I was thinking I would go to Michigan or Northwestern. At both schools, anecdotes were that most students got offers at OCI, but some did not.

Hope this helps! You're in a great position regardless of what you choose. Congrats on the grades and good luck with the transfer!

Based in the anecdotal evidence I've read on this board that transfers don't do well at GULC OCI (maybe due to the large class size), I would go to NYU.

The numbers are slightly misleading, because something like 85% of 2Ls who participate in OCI at NYU get jobs through OCI. There are just a lot of gov/PI people at NYU (though I'm sure you might say the same at GULC for gov). Anecdotally, I've heard transfers do very well at OCI with plenty going to V5/10/20/50 firms. I think the career office's rule of thumb for transfers when looking at firm GPA ranges (the bidding is grade-blind; firms only see grades at the screening interview when you bring your transcript) in constructing their bid lists is to subtract 0.2 from the incoming transfer's GPA, which means OP would be in a pretty good spot.

Just sent in my NYU app.

Have you applied to CLS? If not, definitely send in app in there as well.

Also, don't Penn transfers do decent in EIP/OCI/whatever they call it? And they place well in Biglaw.

KD35 wrote:Also, don't Penn transfers do decent in EIP/OCI/whatever they call it? And they place well in Biglaw.

Don't want to live in Philly.*

*Bad reason, I know.

shock259 wrote:Have you applied to CLS? If not, definitely send in app in there as well.

I was thinking the very same thing.

CounselorNebby wrote:

KD35 wrote:Also, don't Penn transfers do decent in EIP/OCI/whatever they call it? And they place well in Biglaw.

Don't want to live in Philly.*

*Bad reason, I know.

And you'd rather live in the overpriced, godforsaken swamp that is DC?
Yeah, that's a pretty bad reason.

CounselorNebby wrote:

KD35 wrote:Also, don't Penn transfers do decent in EIP/OCI/whatever they call it? And they place well in Biglaw.

Don't want to live in Philly.*

*Bad reason, I know.

I think Philly gets a bad rap. I've only been a few times, but I really enjoyed it. Am I in the minority here?

johnnyquest wrote:

CounselorNebby wrote:

KD35 wrote:Also, don't Penn transfers do decent in EIP/OCI/whatever they call it? And they place well in Biglaw.

Don't want to live in Philly.*

*Bad reason, I know.

I think Philly gets a bad rap. I've only been a few times, but I really enjoyed it. Am I in the minority here?

My experience is that anyone who shits on Philly either hasn't been here since the 80s or has built their entire perception of the city out of extrapolations from old films or new ones that weren't even shot here, e.g. A History of Violence.

Philly is a hugely underrated city. It's got character, it's cheap, it's full of young people, and it has a ton of fun things to do. I love Philly.

The UPenn app deadline passed over on June 15th. A 3L at UPenn (who transferred from the same school as me) already tried selling me on it.

CounselorNebby wrote:The UPenn app deadline passed over on June 15th. A 3L at UPenn (who transferred from the same school as me) already tried selling me on it.

You should throw an app to CLS, too, IMO. Out of CLS/NYU/H you have a good shot at one, imo, and all of their OCI's are favorable for transfers.

shock259 wrote:Have you applied to CLS? If not, definitely send in app in there as well.

When did you hear back from CLS? Late July?

Looks like I applied on 6/28 and heard back on 7/16.

shock259 wrote:Looks like I applied on 6/28 and heard back on 7/16.

What exactly is this "Faculty Appraisal?" Did you just do it with a professor that also wrote your letter of rec?

CounselorNebby wrote:

shock259 wrote:Looks like I applied on 6/28 and heard back on 7/16.

What exactly is this "Faculty Appraisal?" Did you just do it with a professor that also wrote your letter of rec?

"If your letters of recommendation are being submitted in hard copy form, then please use the Faculty Appraisal Form."

Wouldn't that mean you only need to fill out a faculty appraisal if the recommender is sending a hard copy as opposed to through LSAC?