Top Law Schools

Mike and I thought it would be a good time to start a Q&A thread here in the transfer section to answer general questions about the transfer process.


As in our other Q&A thread, there are some things to note. Most importantly, we do not speak for any individual school and this certainly includes the law schools we have worked or consulted for. We are here to offer macro level answers, even to micro level questions, but can not say whether school x or school y prefers this, that, or the other in their admission decisions.



While transferring may be a shrewd move for one person, it is not for everyone. Mike wrote a blog article on this last year that is still relevant: http://spiveyconsulting.com/blog/mistake-2-shangri-law/



Looking forward to your questions!



Cheers,

Karen

Traditionally transferring up equates to higher tuition costs. Does your opinion and the opinion of the article waiver when the opportunity to transfer up entails a tuition reduction?

Do you have a general rule of thumb for when to transfer and when not to transfer, based on tiers, class percentiles, and placement statistics?

Thanks.

holepunch wrote:Traditionally transferring up equates to higher tuition costs. Does your opinion and the opinion of the article waiver when the opportunity to transfer up entails a tuition reduction?

Do you have a general rule of thumb for when to transfer and when not to transfer, based on tiers, class percentiles, and placement statistics?

Thanks.

For me, the takeaway from the article is that you should really think about the bigger picture and all of the reasons for transferring and the possible ramifications of that decision. It isn't for everyone, but is a great decision for many people.

My general rule of thumb is that if you find yourself in the top 10% of your class (outside HYS) you should consider it - not necessarily do it, but think about it. Consider career options, cost, short term goals and longer term goals.

You can transfer up significantly if you've done well (top 10%) and still transfer up if you are in the top 25-30%

I hope that is helpful!

Cheers,
Karen

KarenButtenbaum wrote: My general rule of thumb is that if you find yourself in the top 10% of your class (outside HYS) you should consider it - not necessarily do it, but think about it. Consider career options, cost, short term goals and longer term goals.

What benefit is there in transferring up if you're top 10% at, for example, UVA after 1L year?

Nelson wrote:

KarenButtenbaum wrote: My general rule of thumb is that if you find yourself in the top 10% of your class (outside HYS) you should consider it - not necessarily do it, but think about it. Consider career options, cost, short term goals and longer term goals.

What benefit is there in transferring up if you're top 10% at, for example, UVA after 1L year?

The benefits are highly subjective, so this is just an example of how to approach the thought process of transferring. Ask yourself these types of questions:
Would you rather be a graduate of UVA or another school that is higher ranked? Being an alum of a school will last a lifetime - not just the three years of law school. UVA is a great school, so many people will be very satisfied with that choice.
Where do you want to practice? Will it help to move to another school to further that goal?
Where do you want to be geographically for the next two years?
Will your job prospects be enhanced if you move up? consider long-term and short-term
If you are interested in public interest, are the loan forgiveness programs better at other schools?
Are better or more specific clinical opportunities available at other schools?
Can you try out for law review or other journals?

Hope that is helpful!
Cheers,
karen

A lot of the article discusses cost and big law job prospects

I've got a 2L summer big law job locked down already. What's the downside other than OCI nuances of xfering up from lower t14 to HYS?... Better yet, what are the advantages?

ethmdv wrote:A lot of the article discusses cost and big law job prospects

I've got a 2L summer big law job locked down already. What's the downside other than OCI nuances of xfering up from lower t14 to HYS?... Better yet, what are the advantages?

Are you talking about "visiting" as a 3L or transferring as a rising 2L? If the later, I'm fascinated as to how you secured a 2L big law job? Given that (it happens --I know a student who met a guy on a ski lift and nailed a 2L big law gig as a 1L) I see no real downside to going up the ladder as a transfer student. Build your résumé for the inevitable client development 40 years of your career.

Do you have any data on how transfers do at OCI at their new schools, or whether they land BigLaw or not?

I'd imagine that moving from WashU to either Columbia or NYU would open doors and chances to interview at NYC firms that would not exist if the student stayed at WashU (Especially if the student was between 10-20%, and not at the very top of the class).

WheatThins wrote:Do you have any data on how transfers do at OCI at their new schools, or whether they land BigLaw or not?

I'd imagine that moving from WashU to either Columbia or NYU would open doors and chances to interview at NYC firms that would not exist if the student stayed at WashU (Especially if the student was between 10-20%, and not at the very top of the class).

You might want to check LST for said data. I don't have any stats on hand other than my anecdotal experiences.

For certain on point #2. There are many, many good reasons to transfer and it is a far more lenient process for a good number of people. My blog article was just to make sure everyone sees the bad with the good.

I'm currently at a T2 and tied with a couple of other students for top rank in a class of just under 200 folks. I applied to Georgetown EA, partially to alleviate stress and because I consider it moderately my "safety" school. I hope to obtain a BigLaw SA during OCIs and post-grad continue that course for a few years. I am trying to repeat my last semester's performance and get another 4.0, if that happens then I believe that I have a competitive chance at NYU and Columbia. For BigLaw prospects, (I have already seen the newest NLJ class of 2012 BigLaw stats) would the time-crunched application process to NYU or Columbia and prospects provide more than a negligible difference in attaining a BigLaw SA?

Sorry if that's confusing.

CounselorNebby wrote:I'm currently at a T2 and tied with a couple of other students for top rank in a class of just under 200 folks. I applied to Georgetown EA, partially to alleviate stress and because I consider it moderately my "safety" school. I hope to obtain a BigLaw SA during OCIs and post-grad continue that course for a few years. I am trying to repeat my last semester's performance and get another 4.0, if that happens then I believe that I have a competitive chance at NYU and Columbia. For BigLaw prospects, (I have already seen the newest NLJ class of 2012 BigLaw stats) would the time-crunched application process to NYU or Columbia and prospects provide more than a negligible difference in attaining a BigLaw SA?

Sorry if that's confusing.

You have to remember that transferring isn't just about the short-term BigLaw SA position -- it is also about the school you will have on your resume for the rest of your life. So, in the short term, I do think there may be a smaller difference, but in the long term, that difference may become greater.

Hope that is helpful!

Cheers,
KB