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Top 20% at UT after first semester. Ties to CA and TX.

Preference would be: CA big law>>>TX big law>>>>>>>>any other law. Also would like to have the opportunity to clerk if at all possible. Contemplating transferring and wondered what ya'll thought about a couple options.

1.HYS seems out no matter what, but would attend any of the above if given the opportunity. But I don't have a shot at any of them, right?

2.Thinking I might have some shot at Berkeley, especially if I can bring the grades up a bit. Too optimistic? If I got in that would take some serious soul searching because I am afraid of the additional debt. Still, I assume that would help me get CA big law.

3. And here's my real question: am I crazy to consider EAing to the University of Chicago? On the one hand I think it might be nice to increase my chances at a federal clerkship (and my chances at CA big law?). But on the other hand I have never even been to Chicago and have no ties to the Midwest and if I did shoot for CA and TX at OCI that might look weird to employers from both regions (and TX firms might ding me purely out of principle after transferring away from UT). If I'm crazy to think transferring to Chicago could provide some benefit, either in terms of increased clerkship chances or better big law chances (at least in CA) then please tell me to stop being crazy.

4. Other main question: Should I just stick it out at UT? TX big law wouldn't be the end of the world (parents are helping pay for law school too so striking out wouldn't be the end of the world either. Probably would only have about 50K debt at the end of three years). Still, it's not my first choice. I'm really unsure of what my grades get me at UT- I think I have an ok shot at TX big law but maybe I also have an ok shot at CA big law and I should just target both. Assuming clerkships are probably out. Might be a conversation for me to have with career services.

tl;dr- Pretty good grades at UT. Want big law with a significant preference for CA big law over TX big law. Also would like a shot at clerking if possible. Would EAing to the University of Chicago make any sense at all? Or should I just stick it out at UT?

First, Chicago has a binding ED program, not EA. And for your goals, Stanford/Berkeley make more sense than UChi. Second, with your current grades, you have basically zero shot at Chicago ED (both Chicago and Stanford have small transfer class sizes). So your plan doesn't make much sense because even if you somehow got into Chicago, you would've probs also been accepted at Berkeley, which would give you a better shot at CA biglaw.

Other people on here transferred to Berkeley and can give you a better idea of your chances there, but from what I've heard, your ties to CA and desire to practice in California should help. I'm not sure how competitive you'll be with your current grades though, so you'll definitely want to try to bump them up in the spring. If you can get to top 10%, I imagine you would be close to a lock.

I would focus on your grades this semester and throw an app at Berkeley after you finish your first year. Going to Berkeley would absolutely increase your chances of landing CA biglaw. Transferring to other schools (outside of Stanford) doesn't really make a lot of sense because you would likely be hurting yourself with Texas firms, which would question why you're leaving the state. The nice thing is that you're already in a relatively good spot for TX big law, so even if you get rejected from Berkeley, you'll still have that to fall back on.

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brotherdarkness wrote: For CA biglaw, the pecking order seems to be HYS>Berkeley>T14>etc. UChi is a wonderful school and you can pull CA biglaw from there, but supposing you're admitted to both Berkeley and UChi I would advise heading to Berkeley. That's merely my opinion, though, so take it with a grain of salt.

OP, I agree with this 100% (in case you couldn't tell from my post), and I don't go to Berkeley. So no bias here.

I also approve this message. I adopt and incorporate in full BD's post.

Stick it out. 50,000 total debt at a good school and good grades with a chance at Cali and a decent backup option seems like a sure bet.

UnfrozenCaveman wrote:Stick it out. 50,000 total debt at a good school and good grades with a chance at Cali and a decent backup option seems like a sure bet.

+1. Depends on how much clerkship means to you. You will never know where you'd end up on the Berkeley curve. Not sure if you are giving up Texas LR tho?

I'd apply and leverage for more money to stay at UT, haha.

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brotherdarkness wrote:

Jchance wrote:

UnfrozenCaveman wrote:Stick it out. 50,000 total debt at a good school and good grades with a chance at Cali and a decent backup option seems like a sure bet.

+1. Depends on how much clerkship means to you. You will never know where you'd end up on the Berkeley curve. Not sure if you are giving up Texas LR tho?

I'd apply and leverage for more money to stay at UT, haha.

OCI will have come and gone long before the Berkeley curve matters for OP. Also, the HH/H/P system is much more forgiving than the traditional grading systems utilized by many other schools.

I was hinting at the Berkeley curve for clerkship purpose. Outside of Yale, clerkship is a pretty far reach for median student.

brotherdarkness wrote:

Jchance wrote:

UnfrozenCaveman wrote:Stick it out. 50,000 total debt at a good school and good grades with a chance at Cali and a decent backup option seems like a sure bet.

+1. Depends on how much clerkship means to you. You will never know where you'd end up on the Berkeley curve. Not sure if you are giving up Texas LR tho?

I'd apply and leverage for more money to stay at UT, haha.

OCI will have come and gone long before the Berkeley curve matters for OP. Also, the HH/H/P system is much more forgiving than the traditional grading systems utilized by many other schools.

Doesn't the curve basically break down into HH = A, H = A-, P = B+/B?

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brotherdarkness wrote:

wiz wrote: Doesn't the curve basically break down into HH = A, H = A-, P = B+/B?

Not sure. For upperclassmen, 10% get HH, next like 30% or so get H, and then the rest get P.

Oh, so it doesn't really break down that neatly. That's awesome then. You get recognized for like a B+/A-, but you don't really have to worry about getting a B/B-. P's look so much better.

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brotherdarkness wrote:

wiz wrote:

brotherdarkness wrote:

wiz wrote: Doesn't the curve basically break down into HH = A, H = A-, P = B+/B?

Not sure. For upperclassmen, 10% get HH, next like 30% or so get H, and then the rest get P.

Oh, so it doesn't really break down that neatly. That's awesome then. You get recognized for like a B+/A-, but you don't really have to worry about getting a B/B-. P's look so much better.

They really do.

BD, thats a real progressive grading system. i like it. avoids the pox that other systems like that have with the LP.

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brotherdarkness wrote:

stillwater wrote:BD, thats a real progressive grading system. i like it. avoids the pox that other systems like that have with the LP.

Well, we do have a "sub-pass" or "pass-credit." They're not required by the curve, but apparently some professors are known to give them out pretty freely.

damn, sub-pass sounds subhuman.

at least i feel comfortable within the scope of a professors discretion...

OP here- thanks for the responses guys.

I knew ED Chicago was binding, not sure why I called it EA. Sounds like Chicago is out though, which is fine.

So I guess if things stay the same grade wise or get a bit better then I'll throw a Hail Mary Harvard's way and apply to Berkeley as well and see what happens.

Last question re: clerkships- would my chances get better, worse, or stay the same by transferring up? UT is pretty good in that department themselves. But I know a lot of it is if you have profs who will go to bat for you and was just wondering if you guys thought transferring would hurt in that regard, or if getting more name recognition with the school on the diploma would help. I assume my chances would be increased if I somehow made it into Harvard but would it make any difference if I went to Berkeley?

To whoever asked- I think I'm outside of striking distance at law review right now unless my grades improve next semester.

I encourage everyone above median at UT to transfer, and everyone below median to stick it out and not drop out.

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The only reason this move makes any sense at all is if you absolutely have to be in Cali. You are in a good spot for TX biglaw right now and if you move up in terms of rank it will only get better. I think the conventional wisdom is top third for TX biglaw here. I would definitely stay unless you have to be in Cali. You are at a good school with pretty good grades. Clerking is definitely not outside the realm of possibility for you at UT. Fed app may be out, but I think you can get a Dist Clerkship or at least be competitive. I actually think transferring at this point might hurt your clerkship chances.

I really think California biglaw is very possible from UT with decent grades and ties. It's not a sure thing by any means, but definitely a solid chance. I'd go to Berk if you could get in, but Chicago just wouldn't accomplish much IMO.