Top Law Schools

I'm going to keep this rather vague as I don't want to out myself.

In many ways, I have hit the 1L jackpot. After spending countless hours on TLS, and 3 admissions cycles getting rejected (and waitlisted) by the best law schools in the country, I decided to attend my local T-35ish in a mid-market city that I would love to work in (keep in mind, this was the highest ranked school I was accepted at--my LSAT was ugly but I didn't want to retake--sub 160). While here, I outperformed my LSAT, and leveraged my ability to market myself, as well as my people skills to build out my network with attorneys and law professors alike. It paid off with 5 interviews for 1L Biglaw and Midlaw positions. After getting offered at the Biglaw firm of my choice, I withdrew my pending apps before I heard back from the others. Even after withdrawing, I had a few of my interviewers contact me saying they hoped I would consider them for 2L Summer. I have a very unique personal background (think overcoming odds, made for TV movie), and had extensive legal work experience (I can't stress this experience enough, as I am sure along with my "story"--this got me my resume moved up to the top of the pile). I also had two very well connected law professors contact me on their own, saying they wanted to discuss clerkships with me (one of which is VERY, VERY well connected).

I can assure anyone who reads this, that I am not bragging in any way whatsoever. Trust me, I was devastated when I kept getting rejected from my dream schools, year in and year out (I think I got over 40 rejections overall). However, I knew I had more to offer than my LSAT, and, apparently, a few relevant people have since agreed. I mention all the particulars to get the best advice TLS has to offer.

With all that being said, I can't help but think, should I transfer to one of the schools that initially waitlisted me, or should I stay? (Think Cornell, UCLA, Duke). At this point, I am positive the *only* reason I didn't get in initially, is because of my numbers (3.5ish/sub 160). At this point, I'm thinking that given they don't have to report my undergrad GPA or LSAT, and I've shown I can succeed in LS (top 15-20%), and am employable, they can finally admit me for everything else I have to offer.

If I stay, I don't think I will make law review. I definitely won't grade on, though there is a chance to write on. To be frank, I don't know if I would really enjoy it, or that it would give me the same bump given my previous work experience, and now Summer Assoc. position.

Anyway, with all that being said, AM I CRAZY for even thinking about transferring?

P.S. I'm paying close to sticker where I am at, which is slightly cheaper than what I would pay if I transfer, but not by much. (think 20k overall).

P.S.S. As far as long term goals, I really wouldn't mind staying in my market. I'm more worried about quality of life than making a name for myself in a big NYC or DC firm. To be frank, I wouldn't mind making market in TX (no connections, but will mass mail, just because), living in a huge house, as opposed to a tiny two bedroom apt outside of Manhattan.

P.S.S.S. Never, EVER GIVE UP!!!!

(oops, edited typo)

Did you just say your life is a made for tv movie?

Odds of getting offered a job when you graduate?

Nova wrote:Odds of getting offered a job when you graduate?

From the school I am at? I'm guessing 80-90%. Though, I guess that is part of what makes this a hard choice. If I knew I had a 100% chance, I wouldn't be worrying about it. I have to worry about not fouling it up for 2 summers, not just one. I have about a 90% chance my 1L firm will invite me back for next year. I don't have any weird personality quirks or anything. If I got no offered, it would be because I fouled up some assignments, repeatedly, which, I guess is possible.

Edited

Are you URM? Dont know anyone who got 1L biglaw offers from T35ish that wasnt URM

Not sure I'm convinced by your assertion that you're not bragging. Your whole OP smacks of it--sorry, just being honest about how it read.

How do you know you have a 90% chance of being invited back? Is that based on data or on your own estimation? If data, why not multiply that 90% times their offer rate for 2Ls? If that's also around 90%, you should have about an 80% chance of getting an offer. Have you talked to any former 1Ls who are now associates at the firm? They'll give you an idea of your chances for a full-time offer.

Your odds of getting an SA as a transfer are probably not going to be 90% if you transfer, so it sounds like you have a better shot where you are. Additionally, top 15-20% is not likely to cut it for Duke. I'm not sure about UCLA or Cornell.

If I were in your shoes, I would think about staying. But I would verify that 90% figure and I would get some idea of what % of 1L SAs actually came on as F/T associates after graduation. Good luck.

AssumptionRequired wrote:Are you URM? Dont know anyone who got 1L biglaw offers from T35ish that wasnt URM

Yes.

run26.2 wrote:Not sure I'm convinced by your assertion that you're not bragging. Your whole OP smacks of it--sorry, just being honest about how it read.

How do you know you have a 90% chance of being invited back? Is that based on data or on your own estimation? If data, why not multiply that 90% times their offer rate for 2Ls? If that's also around 90%, you should have about an 80% chance of getting an offer. Have you talked to any former 1Ls who are now associates at the firm? They'll give you an idea of your chances for a full-time offer.

(Former 1L SA got offered for 2L year--but from what I can tell, they only bring on one 1L, so small sample size to really gauge options)

Your odds of getting an SA as a transfer are probably not going to be 90% if you transfer, so it sounds like you have a better shot where you are. Additionally, top 15-20% is not likely to cut it for Duke. I'm not sure about UCLA or Cornell.

(I was waitlisted at Duke multiple years, which is the only reason I think I have a shot. That said, you're probably right. They seem to have had very small transfer classes these past few years)

If I were in your shoes, I would think about staying. But I would verify that 90% figure and I would get some idea of what % of 1L SAs actually came on as F/T associates after graduation. Good luck.

I don't blame you for thinking I'm bragging, after all, this is an anonymous forum and there is only so much you can convey on the internets, under an anon handle. I gave all of that information to get good advice. Plus, I'm not proud of getting rejected over 40 times, and a sub 160 LSAT. So, with that said, thanks for your advice! Seriously.

(edited to bold answers above)

craigsan18 wrote:

Anonymous User wrote: P.S. I'm paying close to sticker where I am at, which is slightly cheaper than what I would pay if I transfer, but not by much. (think 20k overall).

P.S.S. As far as long term goals, I really wouldn't mind staying in my market. I'm more worried about quality of life than making a name for myself in a big NYC or DC firm. To be frank, I wouldn't mind making market in TX (no connections, but will mass mail, just because), living in a huge house, as opposed to a tiny two bedroom apt outside of Manhattan.

P.S.S.S. Never, EVER GIVE UP!!!!
(oops, edited typo)

Just for future reference, what you're wanting to use is P.S. -> P.P.S. -> P.P.P.S and so on. It stands for postscript, so the post postscript (after the postscript) is the next level. Usually, it should stop with P.P.S as well. The ole' triple-P is often too much!

Just a fun fact...

Haha thanks!

Anonymous User wrote:

run26.2 wrote:Not sure I'm convinced by your assertion that you're not bragging. Your whole OP smacks of it--sorry, just being honest about how it read.

How do you know you have a 90% chance of being invited back? Is that based on data or on your own estimation? If data, why not multiply that 90% times their offer rate for 2Ls? If that's also around 90%, you should have about an 80% chance of getting an offer. Have you talked to any former 1Ls who are now associates at the firm? They'll give you an idea of your chances for a full-time offer.

(Former 1L SA got offered for 2L year--but from what I can tell, they only bring on one 1L, so small sample size to really gauge options)

Your odds of getting an SA as a transfer are probably not going to be 90% if you transfer, so it sounds like you have a better shot where you are. Additionally, top 15-20% is not likely to cut it for Duke. I'm not sure about UCLA or Cornell.

(I was waitlisted at Duke multiple years, which is the only reason I think I have a shot. That said, you're probably right. They seem to have had very small transfer classes these past few years)

If I were in your shoes, I would think about staying. But I would verify that 90% figure and I would get some idea of what % of 1L SAs actually came on as F/T associates after graduation. Good luck.

I don't blame you for thinking I'm bragging, after all, this is an anonymous forum and there is only so much you can convey on the internets, under an anon handle. I gave all of that information to get good advice. Plus, I'm not proud of getting rejected over 40 times, and a sub 160 LSAT. So, with that said, thanks for your advice! Seriously.

(edited to bold answers above)

Well the reason I said what I said was to point out that what you need is objective advice. I'm not sure how 1 1L->2L leads you to the 90% figure. It sounds like it is your gut feeling.

You might try to ask the recruiter or ask your law school about the firm's hiring patterns in the past. You need more information that just what you feel. People on TLS are not going to give you the right advice given the paucity of details in your post. Moreover, the data you get from people who have been in your exact situation is going to be much better.

Finally, regarding transferring, you should try to find out who from your school has transferred to the schools you mention. Try to find 2-3 people. Shoot them emails and see how they did at OCI. Usually transfers do pretty well at OCI. But most schools in the T14 usually take transfers from the top 10% of the class, with some of the bigger schools being exceptions (e.g. NYU). UCLA seems to dip into the 15-20% range on occasion. Also, schools are willing to accept a lower-ranked student from a school that is close in the US News rankings.

You should refer to the transfer spreadsheet to guide your decision. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub ... utput=html

Anonymous User wrote:

Nova wrote:Odds of getting offered a job when you graduate?

From the school I am at? I'm guessing 80-90%. Though, I guess that is part of what makes this a hard choice. If I knew I had a 100% chance, I wouldn't be worrying about it. I have to worry about not fouling it up for 2 summers, not just one. I have about a 90% chance my 1L firm will invite me back for next year. I don't have any weird personality quirks or anything. If I got no offered, it would be because I fouled up some assignments, repeatedly, which, I guess is possible.

In that case I would just stay. Esp since youre ok with your current market.

You would have much less of a chance to get biglaw from 11-18 as a transfer.