Top Law Schools

Hey everyone, long time visitor. Wanted to start by thanking everyone for all the advice, it has definitely helped over first semester. I had a question about transferring schools. I am at one of Michigan/Virginia/Berkley (leave out Penn because some people seem to give it more credit).

I finished around top 15% after first semester. I am interested in transferring to harvard or yale because of the proximity to NYC for easier employment for my SO. At both it would be a long distance thing, but Yale would be better (heard it is impossible to transfer there).

On that note, if you guys think no chance at H or Y, what about Columbia? Would this be a terrible idea since my gpa would start over?

This is all of course assuming I do as well again, which I know is not likely.

Thanks everyone

You want biglaw, right? If so, you will have no problem getting tons of offers from NYC firms if you are in the top 15% at a T10. No need to transfer for that.

Columbia does extremely well in NYC, but most employers you'll interview with at EIP will just think of you as a student from your T10 (since that's what will be on your transcript).

Starting over with your GPA is not an issue because you'll have an SA position locked up before you even start classes.

$ will probably an important factor in the decision. Do you have any scholarships?

judging from last year's thread, anyone in the top 10-20% at a T14 was a lock at H

shock259 wrote:You want biglaw, right? If so, you will have no problem getting tons of offers from NYC firms if you are in the top 15% at a T10. No need to transfer for that.

Columbia does extremely well in NYC, but most employers you'll interview with at EIP will just think of you as a student from your T10 (since that's what will be on your transcript).

Starting over with your GPA is not an issue because you'll have an SA position locked up before you even start classes.

$ will probably an important factor in the decision. Do you have any scholarships?

No scholarship, so taking full loans. Its more that my SO wants to start working this summer and I dont want to do long distance than the future of NYC

fatduck wrote:judging from last year's thread, anyone in the top 10-20% at a T14 was a lock at H

I dont know if this is serious? That sounds too good to be true. Does anyone think that this year will be harder? That is still a decent long distance relationship, but not as bad!

fatduck wrote:judging from last year's thread, anyone in the top 10-20% at a T14 was a lock at H

wow, awesome if that's true, i get the feeling that it wasn't quite a sure thing though...especially since most of the people in the threads were usually in top 10% from T10

Why is that awesome?

For most people in the top 20% at a T10 transferring is a bad decision.

Uncle.Joe wrote:Why is that awesome?

For most people in the top 20% at a T10 transferring is a bad decision.

yea, exactly. there aren't that many T10 transfer applicants, for good reason. since H has such a large transfer class they can basically accept all of them.

Uncle.Joe wrote:Why is that awesome?

For most people in the top 20% at a T10 transferring is a bad decision.

This. If you are in the top 10% at a T10, I would say it is almost impossible to not get a biglaw offer if you 1) show up to OCI 2) wear a suit 3) occasionally speak when instructed to speak. The only reason to do this transfer would be for personal reasons or if you want to go to Yale and become an academic.

shock259 wrote:

Uncle.Joe wrote:Why is that awesome?

For most people in the top 20% at a T10 transferring is a bad decision.

This. If you are in the top 10% at a T10, I would say it is almost impossible to not get a biglaw offer if you 1) show up to OCI 2) wear a suit 3) occasionally speak when instructed to speak. The only reason to do this transfer would be for personal reasons or if you want to go to Yale and become an academic.

Or if you can land some of that need based aid and get an HYS degree for a lot less than your T10 costs.

Uncle.Joe wrote:Why is that awesome?

For most people in the top 20% at a T10 transferring is a bad decision.

I doubt it's a bad decision. Maybe not really beneficial, but not negative.

Yeah, I already have 1L SA positions lined up and have been told I interview great. I am not worried at all about getting a job. This is more about my SO and her being able to do a job she wants. Also, I may be able to qualify for need aid at HYS because my parents dont make much (though I did make a decent amount at my job before coming). But my taking full loans right now sucks.

What are the downsides to moving up to HYS or Columbia if you are not going to make law review? Also, I will not be top 10% more likely between 15-20% (dont know why, but based on my classes, I do not feel as though I will do as well this semester)

Keep in mind that Boston isn't *that* close to NYC. You're still talking a 4-5 hour drive (or 4-ish hour train ride). And I don't think your grades are quite good enough for Yale. I think you're better off staying at your school, as you should have zero issues getting NYC BigLaw.

keg411 wrote:Keep in mind that Boston isn't *that* close to NYC. You're still talking a 4-5 hour drive (or 4-ish hour train ride). And I don't think your grades are quite good enough for Yale. I think you're better off staying at your school, as you should have zero issues getting NYC BigLaw.

Yeah, it is still a bit of a treck. What about Columbia? Disadvantage to transffering there?

BigLawer wrote:Yeah, I already have 1L SA positions lined up and have been told I interview great. I am not worried at all about getting a job. This is more about my SO and her being able to do a job she wants. Also, I may be able to qualify for need aid at HYS because my parents dont make much (though I did make a decent amount at my job before coming). But my taking full loans right now sucks.

What are the downsides to moving up to HYS or Columbia if you are not going to make law review? Also, I will not be top 10% more likely between 15-20% (dont know why, but based on my classes, I do not feel as though I will do as well this semester)

if you're paying sticker at your current school there's really no reason not to apply. worst case you might be able to get a scholarship out of your current school.

the downsides are losing your gpa and law review (although most schools let transfers do the write-on) and having to move cities. depending on what your career ambitions are, that might be a big deal or it might not matter at all.

fatduck wrote:

BigLawer wrote:Yeah, I already have 1L SA positions lined up and have been told I interview great. I am not worried at all about getting a job. This is more about my SO and her being able to do a job she wants. Also, I may be able to qualify for need aid at HYS because my parents dont make much (though I did make a decent amount at my job before coming). But my taking full loans right now sucks.

What are the downsides to moving up to HYS or Columbia if you are not going to make law review? Also, I will not be top 10% more likely between 15-20% (dont know why, but based on my classes, I do not feel as though I will do as well this semester)

if you're paying sticker at your current school there's really no reason not to apply. worst case you might be able to get a scholarship out of your current school.

the downsides are losing your gpa and law review (although most schools let transfers do the write-on) and having to move cities. depending on what your career ambitions are, that might be a big deal or it might not matter at all.

This whole "losing your gpa" thing. when you graduate from the new school wont employers still see your grades? Couldnt you calculate them into your overall gpa (if you even put that on your resume?) And if you gun hard cant you still graduate with honors (or whatever distinction) as long as you do well?

If you are looking to be "close" to NYC just go to NYU or Columbia. Considering you are giving up your current school connections, you get almost no benefit from H (can't say for certain about Y).

BigLawer wrote:

fatduck wrote:

BigLawer wrote:Yeah, I already have 1L SA positions lined up and have been told I interview great. I am not worried at all about getting a job. This is more about my SO and her being able to do a job she wants. Also, I may be able to qualify for need aid at HYS because my parents dont make much (though I did make a decent amount at my job before coming). But my taking full loans right now sucks.

What are the downsides to moving up to HYS or Columbia if you are not going to make law review? Also, I will not be top 10% more likely between 15-20% (dont know why, but based on my classes, I do not feel as though I will do as well this semester)

if you're paying sticker at your current school there's really no reason not to apply. worst case you might be able to get a scholarship out of your current school.

the downsides are losing your gpa and law review (although most schools let transfers do the write-on) and having to move cities. depending on what your career ambitions are, that might be a big deal or it might not matter at all.

This whole "losing your gpa" thing. when you graduate from the new school wont employers still see your grades? Couldnt you calculate them into your overall gpa (if you even put that on your resume?) And if you gun hard cant you still graduate with honors (or whatever distinction) as long as you do well?

once you graduate you're probably not going to keep your old school on your resume and i really doubt anyone is going to be asking you for transcripts. it would mostly matter for clerkships and honors, i guess. lots of transfers get top grades at their new schools, but some don't (like me).

transferring to NYU/Columbia is probably not going to matter at all, in the long run, for your employment prospects or anything like that. so if you need to be in NYC, you may as well transfer.

AllTheLawz wrote:If you are looking to be "close" to NYC just go to NYU or Columbia. Considering you are giving up your current school connections, you get almost no benefit from H (can't say for certain about Y).

Current school connections? I mean, besides my friends I dont really have any.

I guess I may be mistaken but I would imagine having that Harvard name on your resume could help you in the future for lateraling (even if only slightly)

Chances are I will stay, but I need to at least look at my options for my SO

fatduck wrote:

BigLawer wrote:

fatduck wrote:

BigLawer wrote:Yeah, I already have 1L SA positions lined up and have been told I interview great. I am not worried at all about getting a job. This is more about my SO and her being able to do a job she wants. Also, I may be able to qualify for need aid at HYS because my parents dont make much (though I did make a decent amount at my job before coming). But my taking full loans right now sucks.

What are the downsides to moving up to HYS or Columbia if you are not going to make law review? Also, I will not be top 10% more likely between 15-20% (dont know why, but based on my classes, I do not feel as though I will do as well this semester)

if you're paying sticker at your current school there's really no reason not to apply. worst case you might be able to get a scholarship out of your current school.

the downsides are losing your gpa and law review (although most schools let transfers do the write-on) and having to move cities. depending on what your career ambitions are, that might be a big deal or it might not matter at all.

This whole "losing your gpa" thing. when you graduate from the new school wont employers still see your grades? Couldnt you calculate them into your overall gpa (if you even put that on your resume?) And if you gun hard cant you still graduate with honors (or whatever distinction) as long as you do well?

once you graduate you're probably not going to keep your old school on your resume and i really doubt anyone is going to be asking you for transcripts. it would mostly matter for clerkships and honors, i guess. lots of transfers get top grades at their new schools, but some don't (like me).

transferring to NYU/Columbia is probably not going to matter at all, in the long run, for your employment prospects or anything like that. so if you need to be in NYC, you may as well transfer.

I dont know what your transfer situation is, but do you regret transferring? I am guessing it was likely a much larger jump than mine is going to be.

This is not aimed at going to a better school to get a better job, its aimed at helping my SO to get her career started.

BigLawer wrote: I dont know what your transfer situation is, but do you regret transferring? I am guessing it was likely a much larger jump than mine is going to be.

This is not aimed at going to a better school to get a better job, its aimed at helping my SO to get her career started.

no, not at all. transferring has been great. not really because of job prospects or anything, i just like the new school.

like i said, lots of people transfer for personal reasons. the big downside to transferring is usually paying sticker at your new school, but since you're paying sticker now that doesn't really matter. so i'd apply and see what happens.

BigLawer wrote:

AllTheLawz wrote:If you are looking to be "close" to NYC just go to NYU or Columbia. Considering you are giving up your current school connections, you get almost no benefit from H (can't say for certain about Y).

Current school connections? I mean, besides my friends I dont really have any.

I guess I may be mistaken but I would imagine having that Harvard name on your resume could help you in the future for lateraling (even if only slightly)

Chances are I will stay, but I need to at least look at my options for my SO

Harvard MIGHT help in the future, but I think it will be more about work at that point. Columbia will not provide any benefit to your career in the future I dont think. I am under the impression that once you are practicing, the school you went to matter less then 1) the work you have done 2) the firm you work at and 3) the connections you have made

fatduck wrote:

BigLawer wrote: I dont know what your transfer situation is, but do you regret transferring? I am guessing it was likely a much larger jump than mine is going to be.

This is not aimed at going to a better school to get a better job, its aimed at helping my SO to get her career started.

no, not at all. transferring has been great. not really because of job prospects or anything, i just like the new school.

like i said, lots of people transfer for personal reasons. the big downside to transferring is usually paying sticker at your new school, but since you're paying sticker now that doesn't really matter. so i'd apply and see what happens.

Sticker at Columbia will cost you quite a bit more than M or V though, keep that in mind. I am guessing about 10-15k a year more (someone can tell me if I am way off) but being at UVA I know I pay about 900 a month to have a 2 bed 2 bath and just me and my SO live in it. Amazing!

AssumptionRequired wrote:

fatduck wrote:

BigLawer wrote: I dont know what your transfer situation is, but do you regret transferring? I am guessing it was likely a much larger jump than mine is going to be.

This is not aimed at going to a better school to get a better job, its aimed at helping my SO to get her career started.

no, not at all. transferring has been great. not really because of job prospects or anything, i just like the new school.

like i said, lots of people transfer for personal reasons. the big downside to transferring is usually paying sticker at your new school, but since you're paying sticker now that doesn't really matter. so i'd apply and see what happens.

Sticker at Columbia will cost you quite a bit more than M or V though, keep that in mind. I am guessing about 10-15k a year more (someone can tell me if I am way off) but being at UVA I know I pay about 900 a month to have a 2 bed 2 bath and just me and my SO live in it. Amazing!

yea, although i assume that would be offset by his SO getting a job

fatduck wrote:

AssumptionRequired wrote:

fatduck wrote:

BigLawer wrote: I dont know what your transfer situation is, but do you regret transferring? I am guessing it was likely a much larger jump than mine is going to be.

This is not aimed at going to a better school to get a better job, its aimed at helping my SO to get her career started.

no, not at all. transferring has been great. not really because of job prospects or anything, i just like the new school.

like i said, lots of people transfer for personal reasons. the big downside to transferring is usually paying sticker at your new school, but since you're paying sticker now that doesn't really matter. so i'd apply and see what happens.

Sticker at Columbia will cost you quite a bit more than M or V though, keep that in mind. I am guessing about 10-15k a year more (someone can tell me if I am way off) but being at UVA I know I pay about 900 a month to have a 2 bed 2 bath and just me and my SO live in it. Amazing!

yea, although i assume that would be offset by his SO getting a job

Yeah, she has a job now, but this one would pay about 15-20k more a year and she wouldnt then have to search for a job, I could find work in NYC and she could stay at her job. Otherwise, chances are we will end up in Texas (I dont think she will take the job if I dont transfer, she likes it here lol)