Philly Area School to Penn Chances Forum

[Butterscotch22]

Wound up with a 3.58 for 1st semester at a Philly area school (Rutgers/ Nova/ Temple) which should put me around the top 10%. I also have really, really strong ties to the Philly area. Do I have a realistic chance at transferring to Penn or would I just be wasting my time?

[JO 14]

Certainly worth a shot. Do not know how your GPA/LSAT might play into the equation, if they ask.

[bk1]

Do not know how your GPA/LSAT might play into the equation.

It won't.

[stillwater]

Certainly worth a shot. Do not know how your GPA/LSAT might play into the equation, if they ask.

I don't understand where this sentiment is coming from. Transferring in law school is about your law school GPA, not your UGPA/LSAT.

[JO 14]

Certainly worth a shot. Do not know how your GPA/LSAT might play into the equation, if they ask.

I don't understand where this sentiment is coming from. Transferring in law school is about your law school GPA, not your UGPA/LSAT.

Makes sense (I have never been involved with a transfer).

I just thought that schools were scored on incoming student stats but I can see how your [transfer] situation skirts this potential concern. Good luck!

[paintbynumbers]

most likely gonna need a 3.8, at least 3.7

[keg411]

Well, you can't be at Rutgers since 3.7 is top 10% there. But if you are, you're going to need something close to a 3.9 to get into Penn. I don't know how much lower the Temple/'Nova curves are so I can't speak to those schools. But I'd guess that you need closer to top 1-3%.

[KidStuddi]

Certainly worth a shot. Do not know how your GPA/LSAT might play into the equation, if they ask.

I don't understand where this sentiment is coming from. Transferring in law school is about your law school GPA, not your UGPA/LSAT.

Well, whether that is actually the case is debatable. Data reported back here (including my own experience) seems to indicate it's not really the case. But then, those statements being true would explain why TTTT students very rarely get into YHS, even with perfect GPAs. Regardless, the sentiment is perfectly understandable and comes directly from statements like these on school's websites:

"Many successful transfer candidates typically place very near the top of their first-year law class and would have also been admitted or wait-listed as first-year students on the basis of their pre-law-school credentials."

http://www.law.harvard.edu/prospective/ ... index.html

[stillwater]

"Many successful transfer candidates typically place very near the top of their first-year law class and would have also been admitted or wait-listed as first-year students on the basis of their pre-law-school credentials."

http://www.law.harvard.edu/prospective/ ... index.html

It says many, not all. The data just doesn't support this contention. If it is a coincidence, sure. But it is not a criterion of transfer.

[KidStuddi]

"Many successful transfer candidates typically place very near the top of their first-year law class and would have also been admitted or wait-listed as first-year students on the basis of their pre-law-school credentials."

http://www.law.harvard.edu/prospective/ ... index.html

It says many, not all. The data just doesn't support this contention. If it is a coincidence, sure. But it is not a criterion of transfer.

Well, first of all, when have you ever seen a law school talk about admissions criteria in absolute terms? Of course they say many. They also say many, not all, successful transfer candidates are near the top of their law school class. Does that mean that class rank isn't a criterion? You're being obtuse and way too conclusory.

What data are you looking at that shows it never matters? Is it just some gigantic coincidence that someone with a 4.0 at a T14 (i.e. high UGPA/LSAT) has a better shot at transferring to HYS than a person with a 4.0 at a T2 (so-so UGPA/LSAT) who in turn has a better shot than a 4.0 at a TTTT(horrible UGPA/LSAT)? All of the data I've seen shows a pretty strong correlation between UGPA / LSAT and transfer success when you control for differences in class rank.

Whether schools are weighting your law school GPA based on your UGPA/LSAT or just by the "ranking" of your 1L school isn't something we're privy to, but they're definitely weighting it somehow. Given that more than a few schools specifically say they look at your pre-law school qualifications and that they all require submission of your LSAC profile, it's not unreasonable to take them at their word that they're using those numbers in some way instead of the rankings USNews comes up with and/or the T6, T20, CCN, MVP, TTTT, etc. bands people on here come up with. Since most people tend to go to schools "appropriate" for their numbers, there are very few data points from people who went to schools wildly below where they could have gone for anyone to empirically determine if it's the pre-law numbers or the ranking that matters.

Where the effect of UGPA/LSAT does seem suspect is when comparing candidates from the same school. Between those candidates, UGPA / LSAT doesn't seem to sway decisions all that often. Even in that context there's not nearly enough data to say it definitely doesn't matter at all.

[3|ink]

Wound up with a 3.58 for 1st semester at a Philly area school (Rutgers/ Nova/ Temple) which should put me around the top 10%. I also have really, really strong ties to the Philly area. Do I have a realistic chance at transferring to Penn or would I just be wasting my time?

I would say you have a good chance if that is your real ranking.