Top Law Schools

1) Curious what my chances are at:

W&M
Emory
W&L
GULC

2) Where else should I look in T1? (from Mid-Atlantic, geographical area not important though)

3) What are my "safe" schools? (broadly T2, lower T2, etc)

I'm deadset on transferring. Anywhere but here mentality. My margin for error on this semester (given that I've worked even harder at what I did before) is +/- 3% on the class ranking. I don't imagine I'll crack into the top 3%, but I don't see myself falling out of the top 10% either (but we all know it's subjective - just use this as guidance I guess).

Here's my numbers:

1L Fall: 3.62 (top 7%)
UG: 3.83 Business + Magna Cum Laude
LSAT: 154
Work Experience: Marketing Intern

I would skim through the transfers forum and you'll find several threads about people in a similar situation. According to everythign I've seen, to break into t14 from TTTT requires at least top 5%. Seems like you would have a good shot at a bunch of T1 schools.

Thanks for the advice. I've been skimming already, seems if I maintain rank I stand a good shot. Just curious if there was any other good info for where I should be looking.

Unfortunately, transfer admissions are not easy to predict. Obviously if any of your targeted schools experiences significant attrition, then your odds increase. Also, there are differences among Tier Four law schools which can be most easily measured by state bar pass rates. In short, apply & see what happens.

Admittedly I'm not sure what qualifies as good passage rates. 85% at the school Im attending. Is that troublesome?

USNews compares each law school's pass rate to that of the state where most graduates of that law school take the bar exam. For example: Florida Coastal grads have a 47% pass rate for the Florida bar exam, but the overall pass rate for the Florida bar exam is 78%.

Well, 85% : 77%. I think that's good enough for bar passage (first time takers). Any other opinions on school choices / where I should app?

LazinessPerSe wrote:Well, 85% : 77%. I think that's good enough for bar passage (first time takers). Any other opinions on school choices / where I should app?

First, congrats! That's quite an accomplishment. I would aim for Berkeley, UCLA, USC, Michigan, UVA, Cornell, Duke, Northwestern, Fordham, Boston-U, GWU, N.D. Apply wherever you want to go...not promising that every school will view your profile the same way. The schools I listed would seem to give you the best break (Lower-T14, Top-25, with one or two Top-10 sprinkled in)

Being a competitive transfer student at Berkeley or UCLA requires only that the student be in the top-10-15% (depending on the school). You're good-to-go. Cast a wide net. Your soft factors. LOR's and essays will still come into play, only this time, most of your target schools will view you more like a student who had a good enough LSAT.

Interesting note about Berkeley; UCal-Berkeley used to require top 5% standing for transfers just a few years ago. Also, Cornell is not transfer friendly regarding OCI & is very expensive.

Georgetown & Michigan should be considered.

Not to be rude, but how did you even end up at a TTTT with those numbers??

PinkRevolver wrote:Not to be rude, but how did you even end up at a TTTT with those numbers??

Some people take the $$$$ at a regional TTTT rather than paying near sticker for T2?

CanadianWolf wrote:Interesting note about Berkeley; UCal-Berkeley used to require top 5% standing for transfers just a few years ago.

Berkeley still advertises that it "prefers" top-5%, but people with top-10% can get in. And remember, it depends on the 1L school in some instances. But a weaker law school can be offset by a more competitive UGPA, so top-7% as a 1L should be good enough. They advertise a more selective transfer system to deter all but the seriously interested and perceivably most competitive. A 3.8 UGPA would have been a competitive for Berkeley out of undergrad, so that's going to bode well on the transfer app. 1L performance gets 70-80% of the weight nevertheless.

PinkRevolver wrote:Not to be rude, but how did you even end up at a TTTT with those numbers??

Ignorance for the most part. I got into other schools but felt like this was the best fit. It was a very ignorant decision that Im hoping to fix. Secondly though, even though the UGPA was good, my LSAT was awful and I only took it once. We all make mistakes; I just had to fix mine with a strong showing at 1L grades I guess.

PDaddy wrote:

LazinessPerSe wrote:Well, 85% : 77%. I think that's good enough for bar passage (first time takers). Any other opinions on school choices / where I should app?

First, congrats! That's quite an accomplishment. I would aim for Berkeley, UCLA, USC, Michigan, UVA, Cornell, Duke, Northwestern, Fordham, Boston-U, GWU, N.D. Apply wherever you want to go...not promising that every school will view your profile the same way. The schools I listed would seem to give you the best break (Lower-T14, Top-25, with one or two Top-10 sprinkled in)

Being a competitive transfer student at Berkeley or UCLA requires only that the student be in the top-10-15% (depending on the school). You're good-to-go. Cast a wide net. Your soft factors. LOR's and essays will still come into play, only this time, most of your target schools will view you more like a student who had a good enough LSAT.

Thanks for the advice! After seeing Arrow's guide (which is a tad old - 2009), I was a bit skeptical about even attempting the T14. The worst they can say is no, though. Obviously my case grows stronger if I can jump from 7% to 5% or better via this semester, but I'm sticking with the numbers I have so far. As mentioned, I'm trying to make up for the sins of a horrible LSAT past. I'll add in most of those schools since geography isn't an issue.

On a side note, I appreciate the optimism/confidence. It's not all the time you find that on these forums. Cheers.

Ded Precedent wrote:

PinkRevolver wrote:Not to be rude, but how did you even end up at a TTTT with those numbers??

Some people take the $$$$ at a regional TTTT rather than paying near sticker for T2?

The saddest part is that I pay sticker at my T4. Not to sound crass, but they gave out their large scholarships to URM-type students who are sitting at the median GPA. I inquired whether scholarships would be available after 1L grades based on merit, and they laughed at me, basically. It's a school that eventually will have a good reputation based on the strength of it's main campus' name and MBA program's national ranking, but as of right now I need the best shot at a job I can get and a newer T4 just won't cut it in an over-saturated market.

LazinessPerSe wrote:1) Curious what my chances are at:

W&M
Emory
W&L
GULC

2) Where else should I look in T1? (from Mid-Atlantic, geographical area not important though)

3) What are my "safe" schools? (broadly T2, lower T2, etc)

I'm deadset on transferring. Anywhere but here mentality. My margin for error on this semester (given that I've worked even harder at what I did before) is +/- 3% on the class ranking. I don't imagine I'll crack into the top 3%, but I don't see myself falling out of the top 10% either (but we all know it's subjective - just use this as guidance I guess).

Here's my numbers:

1L Fall: 3.62 (top 7%)
UG: 3.83 Business + Magna Cum Laude
LSAT: 154
Work Experience: Marketing Intern

I thought about going to Emory for a while, until I heard horror stories of their "employment" rates post grad. Not to defame Emory, but it sounds like some seriously sketchy shit is going down over there...Here's a link to just one article criticizing them: --LinkRemoved--

To be fair, most law schools have skeletons in their closet. Nonetheless, I would do your research and approach Emory with caution.

Unfortunately, I know absolutely nothing about those other schools.... But, did you know that if you go onto your LSAC account you can look up the ABA data that shows how many transfers go in and out of each school each year? These same ABA fact sheets show attrition rates, bar pass rates, geographical comp of students and jobs they take, employment data, etc.