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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:18 am**

Seems like it would also be worth it to apply to Stanford. I don't know about Berkeley considering how high their out of state tuition is. Do you have a scholarship at Vandy?

Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:19 am**

chimp wrote:Seems like it would also be worth it to transfer to Stanford. I don't know about Berkeley considering how high their out of state tuition is. Do you have a scholarship at Vandy?

20k/yr

is stanford even possible with my numbers?

Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:23 am**

fatduck wrote:
chimp wrote:Seems like it would also be worth it to transfer to Stanford. I don't know about Berkeley considering how high their out of state tuition is. Do you have a scholarship at Vandy?
20k/yr

is stanford even possible with my numbers?

To be honest I have no idea, but I would still give it a shot. My thinking is that you shouldn't have that hard of a time getting interviews at CA firms from Vandy given your grades and EE background. If I were you I would probably just stick with the Vandy scholly if I didn't get into Stanford. Berkeley is obviously a great school that will get you to where you want to go, but is it worth giving up your scholarship for?

Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:59 am**

fatduck wrote:
chimp wrote:Seems like it would also be worth it to transfer to Stanford. I don't know about Berkeley considering how high their out of state tuition is. Do you have a scholarship at Vandy?
20k/yr

is stanford even possible with my numbers?

According to Arrow's post, yes.

Arrow wrote: To transfer into HYS you need:
-top 5-10% at a Top 20
-top 5% at T1
-top 1% at a mid-upper T2
-Other notes: People in the top 1% in the Top 20 generally have a lock on at least one of the holy trinity. I could not find a record of anyone in the lower T2/T3/T4 transferring into HYS. Yale and Stanford only appear to take people in the T1 and up. Also, people in the T2 who transfer to Harvard are pretty much always ranked #1. People have stated that HYS only takes transfers who had a shot as an undergrad. My guess is that this is partially true for YS but not H. I do believe that you need above average softs for HYS, but the data seems to show that numbers alone can do the job.
-according to XxSpyKEx, there was 1 guy who went to HYS from a T4 because he co-authored an article or something
-according to utilitarianjac, someone with a 4.0 from Pepperdine transferred to Yale
-xeoh85, who wrote the legendary article on doing well in law school, was #1 at UCLA and was accepted as a transfer at all of HYS

Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:25 am**

chimp wrote:
fatduck wrote:
chimp wrote:Seems like it would also be worth it to transfer to Stanford. I don't know about Berkeley considering how high their out of state tuition is. Do you have a scholarship at Vandy?
20k/yr

is stanford even possible with my numbers?
To be honest I have no idea, but I would still give it a shot. My thinking is that you shouldn't have that hard of a time getting interviews at CA firms from Vandy given your grades and EE background. If I were you I would probably just stick with the Vandy scholly if I didn't get into Stanford. Berkeley is obviously a great school that will get you to where you want to go, but is it worth giving up your scholarship for?

i don't know. i'm basically getting 1. OCI access to firms i want to work for, 2. "ties". i don't know how much those are worth. a lot depends on how much action i'll get at loyola/SFIPLA w/ my current school/grades, which is something i'm unsure of.

if it's going to make a significant difference in my job options i'm not too concerned about the extra $.

i know stanford takes a really small transfer class so i just sort of figured that was a longshot.

Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:32 am**

fatduck wrote:
chimp wrote:
fatduck wrote:
chimp wrote:Seems like it would also be worth it to transfer to Stanford. I don't know about Berkeley considering how high their out of state tuition is. Do you have a scholarship at Vandy?
20k/yr

is stanford even possible with my numbers?
To be honest I have no idea, but I would still give it a shot. My thinking is that you shouldn't have that hard of a time getting interviews at CA firms from Vandy given your grades and EE background. If I were you I would probably just stick with the Vandy scholly if I didn't get into Stanford. Berkeley is obviously a great school that will get you to where you want to go, but is it worth giving up your scholarship for?
i don't know. i'm basically getting 1. OCI access to firms i want to work for, 2. "ties". i don't know how much those are worth. a lot depends on how much action i'll get at loyola/SFIPLA w/ my current school/grades, which is something i'm unsure of.

if it's going to make a significant difference in my job options i'm not too concerned about the extra $.

i know stanford takes a really small transfer class so i just sort of figured that was a longshot.

you will crush at loyola PLIP. prepare to feast.

Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:15 am**

stanford may be possible at your numbers. if you can increase to more like 5% i would say your chances increase significantly. i was 5% at a t35 and am at stanford now. everyone who went to under a t20 (except me) was #1 or 2 in the class. the others who went to T20s were likely in the top 5%ish.

i found that what mattered for me getting in was telling them a story about why i should be here that wasn't about prestige, but rather specific career goals, and how stanford would get me there. my recommenders knew what i was doing this for and hit this point in their letters also, and now i'm here. it sounds like you have something like that. i don't really get it, but there is a big part of the class here that loses it salivating over tech IP shit. i think admissions likes that rep and wants to keep it, so if you tell them that story in a compelling and interesting way i think you have a non-insignificant chance.

for now focus on doing (even only slightly) better this semester and feel free to PM me if you have any questions re: SLS specifically.

edit - also transfer classes here have been increasing recently. 15 people this year, so it's not totally tiny.

Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:57 am**

c3pO4 wrote:you will crush at loyola PLIP. prepare to feast.

True dat bro.

Why not just get the S/B apps together and ready to roll when second semester grades come out? If accepted to either, you don't have to matriculate. Moreover, you won't be left wondering whether you would have been accepted in the first place.

fatduck wrote:i'll be relying almost entirely on job fairs to get interviews with these firms.

Edit to add: don't just rely on job fairs, dooder, get a mailing campaign ready and spam firms as well.

Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:08 am**

Big Shrimpin wrote:
fatduck wrote:i'll be relying almost entirely on job fairs to get interviews with these firms.
Edit to add: don't just rely on job fairs, dooder, get a mailing campaign ready and spam firms as well.

oh, no doubt. that's why i said "almost entirely"

Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 12:05 pm**

Yeah, I figured, but I wanted to make sure.

With top 10%, you're probably going to make most firm grade cutoffs (i.e. I made grade cutoffs with pretransfer grades of around 10% at a TT for firms up to V20s, even in regions where I had no tides). I think that a well-written cover letter evidencing and detailing your desire to be in that area should do the trick to get screeners. After that, it's more of a tossup. Certainly, transferring shows your commitment to the area, etc., but recruiters will probably understand your desire to hang onto top grades and a nice scholly.

If I were you, I'd play the odds and get the apps ready. If you repeat this spring and/or do better, you're in the running for S which would be a no-brainer transfer. B, OTOH, is trickier. If you're dead-set on working in SV/SF, I wouldn't rule out a transfer to B. At the least, it would show employers your desire to be in the area, as well as make it easier to network/etc. with attorneys there via Bs OCI, campus events, etc.

To be sure, however, you stand to lose like 40K in scholarship money, plus adjusted COL. Is that increase in cost, coupled with loss of GPA, worth more than the potential exposure you might get, even at B? I'm sure you've thought about all this, but I wouldn't discount a transfer to B without getting more information re transfers/OCI placement, especially adjusting for the fact that you're IP SECURE (so long as no shit UGPA,

).

Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 12:28 pm**

Big Shrimpin wrote: To be sure, however, you stand to lose like 40K in scholarship money, plus adjusted COL. Is that increase in cost, coupled with loss of GPA, worth more than the potential exposure you might get, even at B? I'm sure you've thought about all this, but I wouldn't discount a transfer to B without getting more information re transfers/OCI placement, especially adjusting for the fact that you're IP SECURE (so long as no shit UGPA, ).

originally i was thinking i'd only transfer to S. recently i've started getting nervous that my lack of ties is going to be a problem in SF, so i started thinking about B. i also have this irrational fear that i'm going to get like 1 interview at loyola somehow. i haven't done much research but i suspect that, in a vacuum (not considering location), i'm not gaining much placement power as a transfer at B vs. top 10% at my school. makes me think B is not worth the cost. my UGPA is okay, ~3.3.

Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:00 pm**

fatduck wrote:
Big Shrimpin wrote: To be sure, however, you stand to lose like 40K in scholarship money, plus adjusted COL. Is that increase in cost, coupled with loss of GPA, worth more than the potential exposure you might get, even at B? I'm sure you've thought about all this, but I wouldn't discount a transfer to B without getting more information re transfers/OCI placement, especially adjusting for the fact that you're IP SECURE (so long as no shit UGPA, ).
originally i was thinking i'd only transfer to S. recently i've started getting nervous that my lack of ties is going to be a problem in SF, so i started thinking about B. i also have this irrational fear that i'm going to get like 1 interview at loyola somehow. i haven't done much research but i suspect that, in a vacuum (not considering location), i'm not gaining much placement power as a transfer at B vs. top 10% at my school. makes me think B is not worth the cost. my UGPA is okay, ~3.3.

Could you find out what kind of exposure to firms in the region with patent practices, as compared to your OCI, Bs OCI would give you? I would imagine there's lots of employers looking for IP dooders at B. During my 2L OCI at GW, for example, there were at least 30 individual bidding options for firms looking for ONLY IP peeps...it's gotta be at least as good at B...that's what I mean by exposure. In retrospect, it would've helped to know that before I transferred, so if you could find that kind of information, it might be really helpful. Moreover, don't be too dissuaded by people who say all interviewers give transfers a comparative disadvantage during OCI. On the contrary, many view transferring as motivation/dedication (especially with great 1L grades...definitely netted me some CBs during OCI, as well as a great talking point for screeners).

Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:08 pm**

Nightrunner wrote:Fucking try it, asshole.

This. Might as well apply to both imo. It's not too much work (outside asking profs for recs and the godforsaken undergrad dean's thing that S wants).

I know you already have a job, but if you didn't I would be telling you to gun for one in the Bay Area. I've been told even by Bay Area natives that SF/SV firms really really care about ties, however none of them were IP. I'd imagine that IP gives you some leeway in the way of ties, but how much I do not know.

Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:20 pm**

bk187 wrote:
Nightrunner wrote:Fucking try it, asshole.
This. Might as well apply to both imo. It's not too much work (outside asking profs for recs and the godforsaken undergrad dean's thing that S wants).

I know you already have a job, but if you didn't I would be telling you to gun for one in the Bay Area. I've been told even by Bay Area natives that SF/SV firms really really care about ties, however none of them were IP. I'd imagine that IP gives you some leeway in the way of ties, but how much I do not know.

yea i'll apply to both. just wondering what i'd do if i got in. i've already made one questionable life decision (west point) based on saying "well fuck it, may as well apply and see if i get in?"

good news is my firm this summer has offices in SF and SV, and i'll get to spend some time at the SV office this summer and hopefully make some connections there.

Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:45 pm**

Nightrunner wrote:Fucking try it, asshole.

Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:51 pm**

Teach us how to lawl school.

And yes, to both.

Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:11 pm**

Yeah I agree with others ITT. Apply to both. If you get S, I think you should go. If you get B but not S come back here and ask at that point. A lot can happen between now and then, especially since you'll need to maintain or improve your rank for a solid shot at either.

Congrats on the grades

Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:18 pm**

fatduck wrote:yea i'll apply to both. just wondering what i'd do if i got in. i've already made one questionable life decision (west point) based on saying "well fuck it, may as well apply and see if i get in?"

good news is my firm this summer has offices in SF and SV, and i'll get to spend some time at the SV office this summer and hopefully make some connections there.

I'd say S is an easy yes if you got it. I don't know if S transfer would be better/equal/worse than top 5-10%+LR+scholly at Vandy, but I think it's pretty safe to say that they are at least close enough that S is the hands down winner based on OCI+SF/SV ties. I think if it is B things get murkier. I guess it depends on how badly you want the Bay Area over doing patent elsewhere. The way I would see it (and I could be totally off base here) is that you'll likely get looks from the firms you want whether it's through IPfairs/massmailing or it's through Boalt's OCI, but that xferring to Boalt would help reinforce your interest, coupled with this summer, in the Bay Area.

Hopefully you will get some people with a better idea on this but I'm not entirely sure you will. If it were me and you didn't have any more info, I'd probably lean towards xferring to B if you really want the Bay Area. You get a prestige jump (granted it's not huge), you get a guarantee of interviews through OCI, and you get more "ties." It will cost you 50-60k more, but you can offset almost half of that with 2L SA pay. Then again, I'm personally very biased since I love the Bay Area.

Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:27 pm**

bk187 wrote:
fatduck wrote:yea i'll apply to both. just wondering what i'd do if i got in. i've already made one questionable life decision (west point) based on saying "well fuck it, may as well apply and see if i get in?"

good news is my firm this summer has offices in SF and SV, and i'll get to spend some time at the SV office this summer and hopefully make some connections there.
I'd say S is an easy yes if you got it. I don't know if S transfer would be better/equal/worse than top 5-10%+LR+scholly at Vandy, but I think it's pretty safe to say that they are at least close enough that S is the hands down winner based on OCI+SF/SV ties. I think if it is B things get murkier. I guess it depends on how badly you want the Bay Area over doing patent elsewhere. The way I would see it (and I could be totally off base here) is that you'll likely get looks from the firms you want whether it's through IPfairs/massmailing or it's through Boalt's OCI, but that xferring to Boalt would help reinforce your interest, coupled with this summer, in the Bay Area.

Hopefully you will get some people with a better idea on this but I'm not entirely sure you will. If it were me and you didn't have any more info, I'd probably lean towards xferring to B if you really want the Bay Area. You get a prestige jump (granted it's not huge), you get a guarantee of interviews through OCI, and you get more "ties." It will cost you 50-60k more, but you can offset almost half of that with 2L SA pay. Then again, I'm personally very biased since I love the Bay Area.

I think I would pretty much agree with this, but also add that the Berkeley Center for Law & Technology is a great resource along with the journal BJLT and other opportunities like the Samuelson clinic that would give you more than whatever bump you get by transferring to B (especially with zero ties).

Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:34 pm**

Rotor wrote:I think I would pretty much agree with this, but also add that the Berkeley Center for Law & Technology is a great resource along with the journal BJLT and other opportunities like the Samuelson clinic that would give you more than whatever bump you get by transferring to B (especially with zero ties).

yea that could be good if i can write on - not sure what berkeley's procedures are for transfers. i know berk has a lot of IP stuff so that's a plus.

Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:37 pm**

fatduck wrote:
Rotor wrote:I think I would pretty much agree with this, but also add that the Berkeley Center for Law & Technology is a great resource along with the journal BJLT and other opportunities like the Samuelson clinic that would give you more than whatever bump you get by transferring to B (especially with zero ties).
yea that could be good if i can write on - not sure what berkeley's procedures are for transfers. i know berk has a lot of IP stuff so that's a plus.

No write on for BTLJ. Like all of our secondary journals, it's an open journal.

http://btlj.org/

Posted: **Mon Feb 20, 2012 6:31 pm**

I don't think you can go wrong applying and see where you stand at that time. I would definitely apply to Stanford even if it's a stretch right now - your second semester grades might bump you into their admit pile or make it clear you don't have a shot and simplify your decision.

Also, what GPA is considered top 10%ish at Vandy?

Posted: **Sun Mar 11, 2012 10:37 pm**

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