Top 10% T1, going back and forth... (Now with a dumb poll)
Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 5:34 pm
So, here's my story. I go to a midwestern T1 (you can all easily figure out which). I am firmly within the top 10%, and just outside top 5%. I feel different about transferring every day. Half of the time I really want to, and half of the time I really don't.
So, a couple factors. First of all, I love it here. Absolutely love it. The town is perfect for me, I've made a bunch of great friends, and generally feel great about living here. I'm not 100% on the idea of living in a city, but if I get a biglaw job, I'll have to anyway, and it's probably better to start earlier.
Second, I understand my school to have a reputation for being very anti-transfer. I went in to talk to a professor whose class I did well in, and basically said "I'm looking for advice on transferring. Pros, cons, and the like. I'm still very early in the process." She was exceedingly against it, and flat out told me that she would not help me or give me a letter of recommendation. I have the feeling that another of my first semester professors will say the same thing. I have no idea what my third graded-class professor will say, but am pretty confident that my legal writing professor would give me a recommendation (after first trying to talk me out of transferring) and my legal research professor (who's since taken a position at another school) would have no problems giving me a glowing review (although the class was half a semester, non-graded, and 1 credit. Even though it might be my best possibility, should I even be considering asking him?). I'm not bitter about my school, or individual professors, being anti-transfer. I completely understand the conflict of interest, and that they'd want to keep their best students (and am flattered that they do indeed want to keep me). But it's also slightly off-putting.
The main reason I keep going back and forth is that I can't decide what my primary priorities are. I would take a biglaw job in Chicago without a moment's hesitation if it's my best option, but being 11 hours from home has become a little trying. All things equal, I would take NY>Philly>Chicago>>>Everywhere Else. I have Philadelphia ties (used to live there, grandparents currently live/work there, grandfather works with some fairly well-known lawyers). If I can keep my grades where they are, I'd have a pretty good shot at Chicago biglaw. Given certain occurrences that have recently transpired around here, though, I have absolutely no bloody idea what OCI's going to be like this year, or where our ranking is going to end up (mid-30s? it doesn't appear to have affected our Chicago connections too much, but who the hell's going to apply this year?!). I'm fairly good at interviewing, I think, and networking/mass mailing doesn't come naturally to me. Neither does asking for LORs.
Also, I can't decide whether I really want to clerk or not. I would love to get into academia, but I'm by no means married to that idea. It's hard to describe how I feel about it. I could definitely see myself as a professor, but I'm not getting into HYS anyway, and I don't want a fairly small chance at something to be my deciding factor in making such a big choice. If I do pursue transferring, I'll try for NYU, Columbia, Penn, GTown, and maybe Duke (I heard UVA only takes in-state transfers?). As I said, I'd be happy with biglaw, though, too.
I am really agonizing. Money's a big factor - although I'm definitely planning on getting something that will allow me to pay back my debt (which is greatly reduced here given the fairly large, but not full, scholarship I'm receiving), I have very little economic wiggle-room. My parents' combined income is not much more than a year's tuition at a law school, and I have a brother in college plus another who will be in college in a few years. Is need-based aid possible for transfers? We're not below the poverty line, but we're not as far away as most law students' families seem to be.
Further, I don't think my parents want me to transfer. This is only a very, very small concern. They've always backed me, and won't tell me not to transfer, but I don't think they'll wholeheartedly approve, even if it's to a T6 (we have no lawyers in the family, which is all pretty unfamiliar with the legal world). I'm perfectly willing to tell my parents, "hey, I'm in my 20s, this is what's right for me." If I do end up deciding it's right for me.
So, what would all of you illustrious posters say? Is it a no-brainer to go, even if I'll burn some bridges here, spend a lot of money applying, and have a somewhat unpleasant semester trying to jump through hoops to get the administration to sign off (I know, it's easy to say "that's exactly the kind of place you want to get out of," but in practice it's not that simple)? Or are there people out there who do indeed think that, given the fact that I'd be perfectly content with Chicago Biglaw, at least for a few years, the fact that I'm getting a pretty big scholarship, the fact that I love the area, and the fact that I'm not too sure what sorts of LORs I can get are important considerations?
Should I start talking to professors now, or wait until later (say, early March)? I'm probably not going to do GTown EA, but would that greatly improve my chances of at least having one acceptance that I could maybe use to negotiate up to a full scholly?
Additionally, is it ever possible to ask a second semester professor for a LOR? There's one here who I've talked to a few times, and absolutely love. We have a lot in common, and he's young, a visiting professor in his first year (so ostensibly little or no conflict of interest), and had a prestigious clerkship as an HYS graduate (so would at least understand where I'm coming from if I wanted to do that).
I know this has been a massive wall of text, and for that I apologize. Answer one question, all of my questions, give me advice, tell me do obviously do it, tell me to obviously not do it... just help me. I'll appreciate it.
TL;DR: Top 10% at T1. School has good Chicago connections, but reputation has been hurt recently. OP has personal ties to Philly area. Historically, T10% has quite a good shot at Chicago Biglaw. Would be happy with Chicago Biglaw. Far from home. Would slightly prefer NYC/Philly to Chicago. School is somewhat anti-transfer; one professor explicitly said "I won't help you." Could still get 2 solid LORs I think. Can't decide if I really want Clerkship/Academia or Biglaw. Really love it here in a medium-sized town; concerned about living in a city but will have to get used to it if I want Biglaw. Money is an issue, have a big but not full scholarship. Help please.
So, a couple factors. First of all, I love it here. Absolutely love it. The town is perfect for me, I've made a bunch of great friends, and generally feel great about living here. I'm not 100% on the idea of living in a city, but if I get a biglaw job, I'll have to anyway, and it's probably better to start earlier.
Second, I understand my school to have a reputation for being very anti-transfer. I went in to talk to a professor whose class I did well in, and basically said "I'm looking for advice on transferring. Pros, cons, and the like. I'm still very early in the process." She was exceedingly against it, and flat out told me that she would not help me or give me a letter of recommendation. I have the feeling that another of my first semester professors will say the same thing. I have no idea what my third graded-class professor will say, but am pretty confident that my legal writing professor would give me a recommendation (after first trying to talk me out of transferring) and my legal research professor (who's since taken a position at another school) would have no problems giving me a glowing review (although the class was half a semester, non-graded, and 1 credit. Even though it might be my best possibility, should I even be considering asking him?). I'm not bitter about my school, or individual professors, being anti-transfer. I completely understand the conflict of interest, and that they'd want to keep their best students (and am flattered that they do indeed want to keep me). But it's also slightly off-putting.
The main reason I keep going back and forth is that I can't decide what my primary priorities are. I would take a biglaw job in Chicago without a moment's hesitation if it's my best option, but being 11 hours from home has become a little trying. All things equal, I would take NY>Philly>Chicago>>>Everywhere Else. I have Philadelphia ties (used to live there, grandparents currently live/work there, grandfather works with some fairly well-known lawyers). If I can keep my grades where they are, I'd have a pretty good shot at Chicago biglaw. Given certain occurrences that have recently transpired around here, though, I have absolutely no bloody idea what OCI's going to be like this year, or where our ranking is going to end up (mid-30s? it doesn't appear to have affected our Chicago connections too much, but who the hell's going to apply this year?!). I'm fairly good at interviewing, I think, and networking/mass mailing doesn't come naturally to me. Neither does asking for LORs.
Also, I can't decide whether I really want to clerk or not. I would love to get into academia, but I'm by no means married to that idea. It's hard to describe how I feel about it. I could definitely see myself as a professor, but I'm not getting into HYS anyway, and I don't want a fairly small chance at something to be my deciding factor in making such a big choice. If I do pursue transferring, I'll try for NYU, Columbia, Penn, GTown, and maybe Duke (I heard UVA only takes in-state transfers?). As I said, I'd be happy with biglaw, though, too.
I am really agonizing. Money's a big factor - although I'm definitely planning on getting something that will allow me to pay back my debt (which is greatly reduced here given the fairly large, but not full, scholarship I'm receiving), I have very little economic wiggle-room. My parents' combined income is not much more than a year's tuition at a law school, and I have a brother in college plus another who will be in college in a few years. Is need-based aid possible for transfers? We're not below the poverty line, but we're not as far away as most law students' families seem to be.
Further, I don't think my parents want me to transfer. This is only a very, very small concern. They've always backed me, and won't tell me not to transfer, but I don't think they'll wholeheartedly approve, even if it's to a T6 (we have no lawyers in the family, which is all pretty unfamiliar with the legal world). I'm perfectly willing to tell my parents, "hey, I'm in my 20s, this is what's right for me." If I do end up deciding it's right for me.
So, what would all of you illustrious posters say? Is it a no-brainer to go, even if I'll burn some bridges here, spend a lot of money applying, and have a somewhat unpleasant semester trying to jump through hoops to get the administration to sign off (I know, it's easy to say "that's exactly the kind of place you want to get out of," but in practice it's not that simple)? Or are there people out there who do indeed think that, given the fact that I'd be perfectly content with Chicago Biglaw, at least for a few years, the fact that I'm getting a pretty big scholarship, the fact that I love the area, and the fact that I'm not too sure what sorts of LORs I can get are important considerations?
Should I start talking to professors now, or wait until later (say, early March)? I'm probably not going to do GTown EA, but would that greatly improve my chances of at least having one acceptance that I could maybe use to negotiate up to a full scholly?
Additionally, is it ever possible to ask a second semester professor for a LOR? There's one here who I've talked to a few times, and absolutely love. We have a lot in common, and he's young, a visiting professor in his first year (so ostensibly little or no conflict of interest), and had a prestigious clerkship as an HYS graduate (so would at least understand where I'm coming from if I wanted to do that).
I know this has been a massive wall of text, and for that I apologize. Answer one question, all of my questions, give me advice, tell me do obviously do it, tell me to obviously not do it... just help me. I'll appreciate it.
TL;DR: Top 10% at T1. School has good Chicago connections, but reputation has been hurt recently. OP has personal ties to Philly area. Historically, T10% has quite a good shot at Chicago Biglaw. Would be happy with Chicago Biglaw. Far from home. Would slightly prefer NYC/Philly to Chicago. School is somewhat anti-transfer; one professor explicitly said "I won't help you." Could still get 2 solid LORs I think. Can't decide if I really want Clerkship/Academia or Biglaw. Really love it here in a medium-sized town; concerned about living in a city but will have to get used to it if I want Biglaw. Money is an issue, have a big but not full scholarship. Help please.