Top Law Schools

A couple of other people from UCH made threads, but we all have different goals and different ranks as of right now, so I thought I would make my own. I was lucky enough to have a 3.767 in my first semester, putting me somewhere between 5-6%.

After law school I'd love to live in SF, I don't really want to live anywhere else. I'm not really interested in biglaw either. It's nice to have it as an option, but I think I'd rather do some sort of government work or PI. I'd like to keep my options open though, as I understand that biglaw is a great first step towards working in high profile government agencies, etc. If I wanted to live in NYC/DC after school, I know that it would be good to try to transfer to the east coast or somewhere in the middle, but if I'm set on the bay area, is it worth it? As a top 5% student, is transferring to Berkeley really going to help me that much more? I don't want Academia, but the idea of a clerkship is pretty intriguing (of course I realize the chance of getting one is incredibly slim).

I also have some questions about getting professor recommendations. I made a meeting to speak with one of my professors tomorrow. I want to talk a little bit about the exam, but I figured it would also be a good time to bring up the question of transferring. I'm really nervous about bringing this up, how did you guys start the conversation? I realize we need 2 recommendations, is a LWR professor an okay person to ask? I got 2 A's, one in torts (the professor with whom I'm meeting tomorrow), and one in civ pro. My civ pro professor doesn't know my name at all or anything. I'm not sure about how to go about asking someone like him for a recommendation when he might not even recognize me.

I'm not really even sure I want to transfer - I love Hastings and I love living in the middle of SF. I feel like I should start the process and at least see what comes my way though since I have this awesome opportunity. Thanks guys.

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re: your goals

i can't weigh things perfectly for you, but i can tell you that financial considerations should play a significant role. i know i've seen you post in other threads, and i don't know your scholarship/debt situation, but you should bear that in mind when you're making the call. particularly relevant would be berkeley's LRAP program if you want gov't/PI. i couldn't tell you if they have LRAP or not, let helpful it is, but i know for the PI minded transfers at SLS that was a big part of their decision to come.

just from what i've heard the top 5-10% at hastings are pretty well regarded and generally secure for finding big law employment in the bay area. PI is more variable and difficult to predict. also from what i've heard the scene out in the bay area is just tighter, with fewer high profile PI opportunities than a place like NYC or DC. berkeley would probably give you a little more flexibility and name recognition if you had to fall back on a non-bay area place, but i think it's a tough one to answer.

re: recommendations

i had specific goals in mind when i approached my professors (my hope is academia/clerkships), and i spoke to the two people on the faculty who i admired the most and genuinely approached them with curiosity about how they'd approach deciding to transfer, and what made sense for my goals. i found them immensely receptive and helpful. there's always the chance you get a professor who is parochial and doesn't understand your position, but even if they suggest you not transfer they will almost always write anyway (and i'm sure if you impressed them they'll write strongly) if you tell them you aren't positive you want to transfer, but want to see your results before you make the decision.

as far as the LRW prof goes i say go for it. schools are going to want people who can comment on something more than your exam performance anyway. LRW is great for that - they probably had you in a small class and have seen you interact with humans. i may also be extrapolating from exactly one data point, but i found that the fact i had a professor/recommender who went to one of the schools to which i was applying carried with it some extra cache, but that was an exceptional circumstance (he was mentioned in my PS, i got top grade in his class, he's a recent grad of SLS, and we really really get along great and have a strong relationship). still, thought i'd mention it FWIW.

Thanks for your input tww! I just met with my professor and it went really well, he offered to write me a recommendation should I decide to transfer. He actually went to Hastings, and my LWR professor did as well. I want to go talk to my civ pro prof about my exam anyways, so I'll see if I should ask him about a recommendation after seeing how we interact and stuff. As per scholarship stuff, I'm lucky enough to be debt free and it isn't my top concern. I'm not sure about the PI situation here, but I worked a bit in PI before school, and I have some family connections to PI orgs. I guess I'll figure out what it's looking like for me after the PI fair, I sent out around 10 apps for that. I'll find out next week if I got any interviews from it.

Sf, you should definetely transfer. It will bring up my class rank next year!

Seriously, are you thinking about HYS or CCN? You have a shot at all of them. If you don't ask, the answer will always be "no".

Do you need 2 LoR's from law school professors? I'm going to ask Takacs for an LoR but I'm hesitant to ask anyone else. The only other person I would consider asking is Depoorter but he hardly knows my name.

kapital98 wrote:Sf, you should definetely transfer. It will bring up my class rank next year!

Seriously, are you thinking about HYS or CCN? You have a shot at all of them. If you don't ask, the answer will always be "no".

Do you need 2 LoR's from law school professors? I'm going to ask Takacs for an LoR but I'm hesitant to ask anyone else. The only other person I would consider asking is Depoorter but he hardly knows my name.

I haven't given it much thought. I think my #1 would be Berkeley. I think I'm definitely out of HYS. I might apply to Columbia. I don't think I would really want to live anywhere except for SF or NYC. Takacs said he would write me one, and I was thinking of asking Mammen to write the other. Mammen and Depoorter both have no idea who I am, but I did better in Mammen's class, sooo.. I'm also thinking of asking my LWR professor or my moot court professor now since he is super nice and told all of us we could use him as a reference on the first day and he would take us all out for coffee to talk about jobs.

ilovesf wrote:

kapital98 wrote:Sf, you should definetely transfer. It will bring up my class rank next year!

Seriously, are you thinking about HYS or CCN? You have a shot at all of them. If you don't ask, the answer will always be "no".

Do you need 2 LoR's from law school professors? I'm going to ask Takacs for an LoR but I'm hesitant to ask anyone else. The only other person I would consider asking is Depoorter but he hardly knows my name.

I haven't given it much thought. I think my #1 would be Berkeley. I think I'm definitely out of HYS. I might apply to Columbia. I don't think I would really want to live anywhere except for SF or NYC. Takacs said he would write me one, and I was thinking of asking Mammen to write the other. Mammen and Depoorter both have no idea who I am, but I did better in Mammen's class, sooo.. I'm also thinking of asking my LWR professor or my moot court professor now since he is super nice and told all of us we could use him as a reference on the first day and he would take us all out for coffee to talk about jobs.

That's nice. It can't hurt to ask Mammen but your LWR professor would probably be better.

Good Luck!

I got recommendations from BDP and Mammen. Mammen has a month turnaround so it might be a good idea to ask early.

DildaMan wrote:I got recommendations from BDP and Mammen. Mammen has a month turnaround so it might be a good idea to ask early.

You are very on top of things! Did Mammen know your name before you met with him? Was he nice about it?

DildaMan wrote:I got recommendations from BDP and Mammen. Mammen has a month turnaround so it might be a good idea to ask early.

How accommodating was BDP? Did he put any resistance. Does he know you from frequent discussions?

Thanks

Mammen was very willing to write one. He remembered me from last semester's office hours. He was extremely nice about it and asked specifically if it was for transfer apps or work. I think he puts a lot of effort into his recommendations because he asks a lot of questions.

BDP was very nice too. He also remembered me from last semester. I spent a lot of time talking to him about patents. He was actually very willing to write one.

kapital98 wrote:Sf, you should definetely transfer. It will bring up my class rank next year!

Seriously, are you thinking about HYS or CCN? You have a shot at all of them. If you don't ask, the answer will always be "no".

Do you need 2 LoR's from law school professors? I'm going to ask Takacs for an LoR but I'm hesitant to ask anyone else. The only other person I would consider asking is Depoorter but he hardly knows my name.

HYS doubtful, if last year's transfer cycle was any indication - CCN more likely. Top 5% wasn't a lock for Berkeley last year.

missinglink wrote:

kapital98 wrote:You have a shot at all of them. If you don't ask, the answer will always be "no".

HYS doubtful, if last year's transfer cycle was any indication - CCN more likely. Top 5% wasn't a lock for Berkeley last year.

An extra $80 is completely worth the effort of applying to Stanford or Harvard. Top 5% gives you a chance. Maybe not a good one but you'll never know unless you ask. $80 is nothing in the grand scheme of things.

Also, if you are accepted, that will give you considerable leverage when it comes to negotiating 2L/3L merit scholarships.

ilovesf wrote:

kapital98 wrote:Sf, you should definetely transfer. It will bring up my class rank next year!

Seriously, are you thinking about HYS or CCN? You have a shot at all of them. If you don't ask, the answer will always be "no".

Do you need 2 LoR's from law school professors? I'm going to ask Takacs for an LoR but I'm hesitant to ask anyone else. The only other person I would consider asking is Depoorter but he hardly knows my name.

I haven't given it much thought. I think my #1 would be Berkeley. I think I'm definitely out of HYS. I might apply to Columbia. I don't think I would really want to live anywhere except for SF or NYC. Takacs said he would write me one, and I was thinking of asking Mammen to write the other. Mammen and Depoorter both have no idea who I am, but I did better in Mammen's class, sooo.. I'm also thinking of asking my LWR professor or my moot court professor now since he is super nice and told all of us we could use him as a reference on the first day and he would take us all out for coffee to talk about jobs.

Come to CLS, we have candy!

Guchster wrote: Come to CLS, we have candy!

Maybe I'll come check it out when I'm in NYC for spring break!

dang, you guys are on top of it!

i think i'll ask to meet with my teachers from last semester next week. we only need two right? i guess there's really no point in waiting to ask for recs.

none of my profs even know me, besides my lwr teacher, so i can tell this process is going to be extra fun.

Lasers wrote:dang, you guys are on top of it!

i think i'll ask to meet with my teachers from last semester next week. we only need two right? i guess there's really no point in waiting to ask for recs.

none of my profs even know me, besides my lwr teacher, so i can tell this process is going to be extra fun.

I never really spoke up in class either. But it wasn't really a problem getting recs.

Most of them will understand where you're coming from. Although I heard of one that gave someone a hard time about it - but ultimately wrote one.

missinglink wrote:

Lasers wrote:dang, you guys are on top of it!

i think i'll ask to meet with my teachers from last semester next week. we only need two right? i guess there's really no point in waiting to ask for recs.

none of my profs even know me, besides my lwr teacher, so i can tell this process is going to be extra fun.

I never really spoke up in class either. But it wasn't really a problem getting recs.

Most of them will understand where you're coming from. Although I heard of one that gave someone a hard time about it - but ultimately wrote one.

My problem too. I can get my LRW prof almost certainly - really student friendly guy - but I'll have a hard time with any of my doctrinal profs. It was never my style to go to office hours or anything...if I ever had a question about something, I'd just look it up in my supplement and figure it out.

I'm curious how everyone here does with the LOR process. Keep us updated.

OP: I'm in a similar situation at a similar school, so I may steal some of your thunder.

Don't most school require second semester grades as well? Or can you send in the apps early and then submit your grades when they come out in June?

Does applying early give you any advantage even if the school doesnt have an EA option?

thread bump from a long-time lurker.

sf and I are stats twins - Hastings, 3.767.

my interests are more academia/clerkship than biglaw, though for the purposes of paying down mountains of debt i might give bl some consideration.

strong ties to the bay area, looking at putting in apps at Boalt and SLS. i realize the latter is probably outside my reach right now, is there any consensus on what that would take?

reasonable troll wrote:thread bump from a long-time lurker.

sf and I are stats twins - Hastings, 3.767.

my interests are more academia/clerkship than biglaw, though for the purposes of paying down mountains of debt i might give bl some consideration.

strong ties to the bay area, looking at putting in apps at Boalt and SLS. i realize the latter is probably outside my reach right now, is there any consensus on what that would take?

shot at SLS would very likely require inside top 5%; more likely inside top 3%.

top 5% or there around will probably give a great shot at boalt from what i've read.

reasonable troll wrote:thread bump from a long-time lurker.

sf and I are stats twins - Hastings, 3.767.

my interests are more academia/clerkship than biglaw, though for the purposes of paying down mountains of debt i might give bl some consideration.

strong ties to the bay area, looking at putting in apps at Boalt and SLS. i realize the latter is probably outside my reach right now, is there any consensus on what that would take?

Know people who got rejected from Berkeley with similar. Last year, one of the few SLS admits had a slew of CALI awards.

missinglink wrote: Know people who got rejected from Berkeley with similar. Last year, one of the few SLS admits had a slew of CALI awards.

No arguments here. Seems like Berkeley may be especially tough to predict. Thoughts on those who were rejected? Grades just didn't quite make the Boalt cutoff or something else?

P.S. FWIW to the other Hastings TLSers, I'm not Section 5.

reasonable troll wrote:

missinglink wrote: Know people who got rejected from Berkeley with similar. Last year, one of the few SLS admits had a slew of CALI awards.

No arguments here. Seems like Berkeley may be especially tough to predict. Thoughts on those who were rejected? Grades just didn't quite make the Boalt cutoff or something else?

P.S. FWIW to the other Hastings TLSers, I'm not Section 5.

Dunno what it would have taken to get in - there were plenty of talented people rejected. FWIW someone told me through the grape vine that Boalt had pared down the transfer class that year. That might be the right answer. Or not.

I am not qualified to give you much advice on transferring, but I have an issue when you say you were "lucky" enough to be in the top 5-6%tile of your class at Hastings... Doing that well in a tier one school took hard work and dedication.

Congrats and good luck!