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Ranked 1st in my class at a T25 school in the midwest this semester.

If I rank similarly this spring, what are my chances at HYS? Also, if I don't get into HYS but get into either Chicago, Columbia, or NYU, is it worth it to transfer to one of those? Or would I be better off staying at my current school where I'm sure to be on law review?

LawMan20 wrote:Ranked 1st in my class at a T25 school in the midwest this semester.

If I rank similarly this spring, what are my chances at HYS? Also, if I don't get into HYS but get into either Chicago, Columbia, or NYU, is it worth it to transfer to one of those? Or would I be better off staying at my current school where I'm sure to be on law review?

Stay #1 and you'll definitely have HYS. #1-5 and you'll have a shot.

I'd say just focus on replicating your performance and apply to HYS/CCN. You can make a decision once you get in. Law review is a plus at HYS but it's not a game changer. Most transfers I know who are not on law review are just as successful job-wise and clerkship-wise as those who are.

Thanks for the responses. Any other thoughts?

LawMan20 wrote:Thanks for the responses. Any other thoughts?

Being an 0L, I'm not supposed to post here and have nothing to add, but Congratulations! That's really awesome

Good chance at HYS (not 100%, but solid chance). Almost definitely will get CCN.

CCN may or may not be worth it. Really depends on your goals. Most options available to a CCN transfer will also be available to someone who is rank 1 at a T25. HYS transfer is, in my opinion, definitely worth it.


Good luck.

The only relevant question would be, "How good is my chance at doing UChicago ED?" Wait until the next set of grades come out. I've seen people on the top of mountain after first semester come tumbling down and people near median shoot way up. The dynamic of second semester is a little different than the first, since some people will be getting the hang of it, some people will be burning out, etc.

Helmholtz wrote:The only relevant question would be, "How good is my chance at doing UChicago ED?" Wait until the next set of grades come out. I've seen people on the top of mountain after first semester come tumbling down and people near median shoot way up. The dynamic of second semester is a little different than the first, since some people will be getting the hang of it, some people will be burning out, etc.

You quit it with your logic. This area is reserved for wild speculation only.

Helmholtz wrote:The only relevant question would be, "How good is my chance at doing UChicago ED?" Wait until the next set of grades come out. I've seen people on the top of mountain after first semester come tumbling down and people near median shoot way up. The dynamic of second semester is a little different than the first, since some people will be getting the hang of it, some people will be burning out, etc.

Could you expand on this? Are you saying that I should shoot for Chicago ED, because of the possibility that my grades drop? The deadline is April 30th, and they only use first semester grades in making a decision. Or are you saying that's the only relevant question because I actually have the grades I would use to apply? Should I ED to Chicago?

LawMan20 wrote:

Helmholtz wrote:The only relevant question would be, "How good is my chance at doing UChicago ED?" Wait until the next set of grades come out. I've seen people on the top of mountain after first semester come tumbling down and people near median shoot way up. The dynamic of second semester is a little different than the first, since some people will be getting the hang of it, some people will be burning out, etc.

Could you expand on this? Are you saying that I should shoot for Chicago ED, because of the possibility that my grades drop? The deadline is April 30th, and they only use first semester grades in making a decision. Or are you saying that's the only relevant question because I actually have the grades I would use to apply? Should I ED to Chicago?

You should not ED to Chi. The decision is binding and you would probably get in. If your second semester grades are consistent (or even drop slightly) you will be very competitive for HYS at the end of next semester.

I think what Helmholtz is saying is that, at this juncture, the only decision you need to make is whether or not to apply to Chi ED because you don't yet have second semester grades (i.e. this whole thread is speculation - which it is).

OP, I wouldn't do Chicago ED if I were in your shoes unless you really really really want Chicago for some reason. Yes, you might go down a little second semester, but I doubt you will drop so much that it would kill your your HYSCCN chances.

Also, if you stay #1 and get LR, consider not transferring. Especially if you have or can get $$$$ at your current school. If you want a job in a different market than the one your school is in, start mass mailing in mid-July and set up information interviews with alumni of your school with firms in your target markets starting when you get done in May. Being #1 at a really good school is huge, and I wouldn't particularly recommend giving it up.

ETA: I also think it's fair for OP to start thinking about the transfer issue now rather than waiting until second semester. It's a really big decision and he's likely going to have to get LOR's and talk to his professors before second semester grades anyway.

Hey congrats on being number 1 thats super impressive! Do you have a scholly at the school you are at? Do you think they would give you a scholly based on your awesome performance?

AssumptionRequired wrote:Hey congrats on being number 1 thats super impressive! Do you have a scholly at the school you are at? Do you think they would give you a scholly based on your awesome performance?

Thanks. I have a decent scholarship, but not full tuition. I'll certainly inquire about receiving more merit aid, but I'm not at all sure how our school (or any school) treats such requests.

Thanks for all of the responses. At this point, I am thinking that if I do extremely well again, I will try to get into HYS; and, if I get into HYS, I will go. If I get dinged at HYS, though, I'll probably just stay at my school now, as I will most likely end up on law review and have decent job prospects. I've read that jobs aren't a completely sure thing at CCN as they are at HYS, so I don't think I would want the stress of starting up at CCN and worrying about doing well my first semester there. ---- Thoughts?

LawMan20 wrote:

AssumptionRequired wrote:Hey congrats on being number 1 thats super impressive! Do you have a scholly at the school you are at? Do you think they would give you a scholly based on your awesome performance?

Thanks. I have a decent scholarship, but not full tuition. I'll certainly inquire about receiving more merit aid, but I'm not at all sure how our school (or any school) treats such requests.

Thanks for all of the responses. At this point, I am thinking that if I do extremely well again, I will try to get into HYS; and, if I get into HYS, I will go. If I get dinged at HYS, though, I'll probably just stay at my school now, as I will most likely end up on law review and have decent job prospects. I've read that jobs aren't a completely sure thing at CCN as they are at HYS, so I don't think I would want the stress of starting up at CCN and worrying about doing well my first semester there. ---- Thoughts?

Notwithstanding the amount of pro-Chicago trolling that goes on this board, transferring to Chicago is markedly different than transferring to Columbia or NYU in terms of OCI opportunities.

Transferthrowaway wrote:

LawMan20 wrote:

AssumptionRequired wrote:Hey congrats on being number 1 thats super impressive! Do you have a scholly at the school you are at? Do you think they would give you a scholly based on your awesome performance?

Thanks. I have a decent scholarship, but not full tuition. I'll certainly inquire about receiving more merit aid, but I'm not at all sure how our school (or any school) treats such requests.

Thanks for all of the responses. At this point, I am thinking that if I do extremely well again, I will try to get into HYS; and, if I get into HYS, I will go. If I get dinged at HYS, though, I'll probably just stay at my school now, as I will most likely end up on law review and have decent job prospects. I've read that jobs aren't a completely sure thing at CCN as they are at HYS, so I don't think I would want the stress of starting up at CCN and worrying about doing well my first semester there. ---- Thoughts?

Notwithstanding the amount of pro-Chicago trolling that goes on this board, transferring to Chicago is markedly different than transferring to Columbia or NYU in terms of OCI opportunities.

Do you mean worse at Chicago? I have heard people do well at Columbia and NYU as transfers

AssumptionRequired wrote:

Transferthrowaway wrote:

LawMan20 wrote:

AssumptionRequired wrote:Hey congrats on being number 1 thats super impressive! Do you have a scholly at the school you are at? Do you think they would give you a scholly based on your awesome performance?

Thanks. I have a decent scholarship, but not full tuition. I'll certainly inquire about receiving more merit aid, but I'm not at all sure how our school (or any school) treats such requests.

Thanks for all of the responses. At this point, I am thinking that if I do extremely well again, I will try to get into HYS; and, if I get into HYS, I will go. If I get dinged at HYS, though, I'll probably just stay at my school now, as I will most likely end up on law review and have decent job prospects. I've read that jobs aren't a completely sure thing at CCN as they are at HYS, so I don't think I would want the stress of starting up at CCN and worrying about doing well my first semester there. ---- Thoughts?

Notwithstanding the amount of pro-Chicago trolling that goes on this board, transferring to Chicago is markedly different than transferring to Columbia or NYU in terms of OCI opportunities.

Do you mean worse at Chicago? I have heard people do well at Columbia and NYU as transfers

Better at Chicago. Chicago's transfer class is 15-20 compared to the 40-50 at Columbia and NYU. Also the smaller class size in general helps.

Transferthrowaway wrote:

AssumptionRequired wrote:

Transferthrowaway wrote: Notwithstanding the amount of pro-Chicago trolling that goes on this board, transferring to Chicago is markedly different than transferring to Columbia or NYU in terms of OCI opportunities.

Do you mean worse at Chicago? I have heard people do well at Columbia and NYU as transfers

Better at Chicago. Chicago's transfer class is 15-20 compared to the 40-50 at Columbia and NYU. Also the smaller class size in general helps.

What are you basing this on other than the difference in class size? I have heard from people who transferred to CLS/NYU that the overwhelming majority of those who wanted biglaw got it.

LawMan20 wrote:Thanks for all of the responses. At this point, I am thinking that if I do extremely well again, I will try to get into HYS; and, if I get into HYS, I will go. If I get dinged at HYS, though, I'll probably just stay at my school now, as I will most likely end up on law review and have decent job prospects. I've read that jobs aren't a completely sure thing at CCN as they are at HYS, so I don't think I would want the stress of starting up at CCN and worrying about doing well my first semester there. ---- Thoughts?

I think this is a good approach OP. There are worse things than being stuck at the top of the class and on LR at a T25.

concurrent fork wrote:

Transferthrowaway wrote:

AssumptionRequired wrote:

Transferthrowaway wrote: Notwithstanding the amount of pro-Chicago trolling that goes on this board, transferring to Chicago is markedly different than transferring to Columbia or NYU in terms of OCI opportunities.

Do you mean worse at Chicago? I have heard people do well at Columbia and NYU as transfers

Better at Chicago. Chicago's transfer class is 15-20 compared to the 40-50 at Columbia and NYU. Also the smaller class size in general helps.

What are you basing this on other than the difference in class size? I have heard from people who transferred to CLS/NYU that the overwhelming majority of those who wanted biglaw got it.

Every transfer at Chicago who wanted biglaw got it this year.

Transferthrowaway wrote:Every transfer at Chicago who wanted biglaw got it this year.

That still doesn't answer my question. Do you know of transfers at both CLS and NYU that really wanted biglaw and struck out? The person who made the comment I referenced above couldn't speak in absolutes because they did not know the employment situation/desires of every person in their transfer class.

concurrent fork wrote:

Transferthrowaway wrote:Every transfer at Chicago who wanted biglaw got it this year.

That still doesn't answer my question. Do you know of transfers at both CLS and NYU that really wanted biglaw and struck out? The person who made the comment I referenced above couldn't speak in absolutes because they did not know the employment situation/desires of every person in their transfer class.

Alright, fine. They're all the same. Roughly 75% of Chicago's transfers had at least one V15 offer (and 40% with V5 offers). I'm sure Columbia and NYU can boast the same level of success.

CLS transfer from top 25. v5 employment. turned down more call backs than i can count. same story for the rest of the other transfers here - all v25 or so, maybe with a few higher.

I seriously doubt there is any difference between Columbia and Chicago. However, NYU sucks - that is all.