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I have made a lot of connections where I'm at, but I really need to consider transferring to a tier 1 program. I'm from Indiana, so I know the midwest. I don't like where I'm at geographically, neither does my wife. I don't want to pigeon hole myself to the south Jersey/Philly area, but I also don't necessarily want to live in the midwest for the rest of my life. A little help, please.

Did you already get in?

Well, no. I know, it sounds stupid to be wondering about this prematurely, but despite being rejected from top tier 1 schools, the only school I have left to hear back from is IUB. Basically, I have been going back and forth on whether I would go or not if I were to be accepted, and since its already towards the end of July and I'm set to be moving apartments at the end of July, I want to know what I will do the minute I find out if I was accepted.

trbenton13 wrote:Well, no. I know, it sounds stupid to be wondering about this prematurely, but despite being rejected from top tier 1 schools, the only school I have left to hear back from is IUB. Basically, I have been going back and forth on whether I would go or not if I were to be accepted, and since its already towards the end of July and I'm set to be moving apartments at the end of July, I want to know what I will do the minute I find out if I was accepted.

Would you have instate tuition?

JamMasterJ wrote:

trbenton13 wrote:Well, no. I know, it sounds stupid to be wondering about this prematurely, but despite being rejected from top tier 1 schools, the only school I have left to hear back from is IUB. Basically, I have been going back and forth on whether I would go or not if I were to be accepted, and since its already towards the end of July and I'm set to be moving apartments at the end of July, I want to know what I will do the minute I find out if I was accepted.

Would you have instate tuition?

That's a really good question... and I don't know. I got my Master's Degree from IU-Indy with instate tuition and then moved to NJ where I'm now receiving in state tuition. I would say its 50/50 of getting it or not.

I should also add I have no scholarships at Rutgers.

trbenton13 wrote:I have made a lot of connections where I'm at, but I really need to consider transferring to a tier 1 program. I'm from Indiana, so I know the midwest. I don't like where I'm at geographically, neither does my wife. I don't want to pigeon hole myself to the south Jersey/Philly area, but I also don't necessarily want to live in the midwest for the rest of my life. A little help, please.

IUB has a hard enough time placing in Indiana, so if you dont want to live int the midwest the rest of your life you should nto go there. If I were you I'd try and ball out and land a philly or Jersery firm that will give you exit options to lateral to a different region. Youre more likley to pigeon hole yourself as an IUB transfer than top of your class at rutgers.

Isn't IU Bloomington one of the most expensive schools if you're paying out of state sticker? Don't quote me on that, I just remember hearing how expensive it was.

bartleby wrote:Isn't IU Bloomington one of the most expensive schools if you're paying out of state sticker? Don't quote me on that, I just remember hearing how expensive it was.

$44,500 for nonresident for next year. $27,000 for resident.

trbenton13 wrote:

bartleby wrote:Isn't IU Bloomington one of the most expensive schools if you're paying out of state sticker? Don't quote me on that, I just remember hearing how expensive it was.

$44,500 for nonresident for next year. $27,000 for resident.

compared to its job prospects, yeah OOS is really high

splitmuch wrote:

trbenton13 wrote:I have made a lot of connections where I'm at, but I really need to consider transferring to a tier 1 program. I'm from Indiana, so I know the midwest. I don't like where I'm at geographically, neither does my wife. I don't want to pigeon hole myself to the south Jersey/Philly area, but I also don't necessarily want to live in the midwest for the rest of my life. A little help, please.

IUB has a hard enough time placing in Indiana, so if you dont want to live int the midwest the rest of your life you should nto go there. If I were you I'd try and ball out and land a philly or Jersery firm that will give you exit options to lateral to a different region. Youre more likley to pigeon hole yourself as an IUB transfer than top of your class at rutgers.

Is it the same if I don't want to work in a firm as my career? I have work experience working in Indiana and Arizona government. I'd like to do government policy work after a few years of working for a firm to pay off student loans. I'd really like a higher level clerkship when I graduate, then work at a firm for a few years and then see where I can get with government policy work.

trbenton13 wrote:

splitmuch wrote:

trbenton13 wrote:I have made a lot of connections where I'm at, but I really need to consider transferring to a tier 1 program. I'm from Indiana, so I know the midwest. I don't like where I'm at geographically, neither does my wife. I don't want to pigeon hole myself to the south Jersey/Philly area, but I also don't necessarily want to live in the midwest for the rest of my life. A little help, please.

IUB has a hard enough time placing in Indiana, so if you dont want to live int the midwest the rest of your life you should nto go there. If I were you I'd try and ball out and land a philly or Jersery firm that will give you exit options to lateral to a different region. Youre more likley to pigeon hole yourself as an IUB transfer than top of your class at rutgers.

Is it the same if I don't want to work in a firm as my career? I have work experience working in Indiana and Arizona government. I'd like to do government policy work after a few years of working for a firm to pay off student loans. I'd really like a higher level clerkship when I graduate, then work at a firm for a few years and then see where I can get with government policy work.

High level clerkship is unlikely from IU

trbenton13 wrote:

splitmuch wrote:

trbenton13 wrote:I have made a lot of connections where I'm at, but I really need to consider transferring to a tier 1 program. I'm from Indiana, so I know the midwest. I don't like where I'm at geographically, neither does my wife. I don't want to pigeon hole myself to the south Jersey/Philly area, but I also don't necessarily want to live in the midwest for the rest of my life. A little help, please.

IUB has a hard enough time placing in Indiana, so if you dont want to live int the midwest the rest of your life you should nto go there. If I were you I'd try and ball out and land a philly or Jersery firm that will give you exit options to lateral to a different region. Youre more likley to pigeon hole yourself as an IUB transfer than top of your class at rutgers.

Is it the same if I don't want to work in a firm as my career? I have work experience working in Indiana and Arizona government. I'd like to do government policy work after a few years of working for a firm to pay off student loans. I'd really like a higher level clerkship when I graduate, then work at a firm for a few years and then see where I can get with government policy work.

Hate to break it to you but high level clerkship is going to be really hard from either school (especially because while it seems you have done very well at RU, it wasn't exceptional-thats an assumption based on how the rest of our transfer apps work forgive me if I am wrong). Your best bet for a clerkship is to stay at rutgers, develop a relationship with a prof and try to get some state-level clerkship. But in any case it will be easy to go to government form an NLJ250 firm which will be easier to get (though still not easy) from top of the class at RU than as an IUB transfer.

out of curiosity, when were you rejected from penn? you said you were rejected from top tier 1 schools?

splitmuch wrote:

trbenton13 wrote:

splitmuch wrote:

trbenton13 wrote:I have made a lot of connections where I'm at, but I really need to consider transferring to a tier 1 program. I'm from Indiana, so I know the midwest. I don't like where I'm at geographically, neither does my wife. I don't want to pigeon hole myself to the south Jersey/Philly area, but I also don't necessarily want to live in the midwest for the rest of my life. A little help, please.

IUB has a hard enough time placing in Indiana, so if you dont want to live int the midwest the rest of your life you should nto go there. If I were you I'd try and ball out and land a philly or Jersery firm that will give you exit options to lateral to a different region. Youre more likley to pigeon hole yourself as an IUB transfer than top of your class at rutgers.

Is it the same if I don't want to work in a firm as my career? I have work experience working in Indiana and Arizona government. I'd like to do government policy work after a few years of working for a firm to pay off student loans. I'd really like a higher level clerkship when I graduate, then work at a firm for a few years and then see where I can get with government policy work.

Hate to break it to you but high level clerkship is going to be really hard from either school (especially because while it seems you have done very well at RU, it wasn't exceptional-thats an assumption based on how the rest of our transfer apps work forgive me if I am wrong). Your best bet for a clerkship is to stay at rutgers, develop a relationship with a prof and try to get some state-level clerkship. But in any case it will be easy to go to government form an NLJ250 firm which will be easier to get (though still not easy) from top of the class at RU than as an IUB transfer.

My first year, I landed in about top 10-12%. Its kind of hard, because Rutgers doesn't rank... so its a guessing game based off of honors ranges. I have good connections with profs who know a clerkship is what I want, one of which got a clerkship in District and Ct. of Appeals levels not long ago when he graduated from UPenn.

rising2l wrote:out of curiosity, when were you rejected from penn? you said you were rejected from top tier 1 schools?

I believe it was Monday... maybe last Friday.

My first year, I landed in about top 10-12%. Its kind of hard, because Rutgers doesn't rank... so its a guessing game based off of honors ranges. I have good connections with profs who know a clerkship is what I want, one of which got a clerkship in District and Ct. of Appeals levels not long ago when he graduated from UPenn.[/quote]

This should not be a question then. IUB does not place anywhere like its USN rank. Stay.

As someone transferring from your school, I think in your position you should stay, unless you really really want to go back and work in Indiana and can manage to get in-state tuition there. Also, I don't know if you'll necessarily be able to get a District Court or CoA clerkship from Rutgers, but you might be able to get a State Appellate clerkship and you can easily get a State Trial clerkship if you maintain you're approximate grades and class standing.

I'm a little surprised you got rejected from everywhere, though (especially if you applied to transfer-friendly schools like GW and WUSTL) unless you're not looking at the honors cut-offs correctly.

keg411 wrote:As someone transferring from your school, I think in your position you should stay, unless you really really want to go back and work in Indiana and can manage to get in-state tuition there. Also, I don't know if you'll necessarily be able to get a District Court or CoA clerkship from Rutgers, but you might be able to get a State Appellate clerkship and you can easily get a State Trial clerkship if you maintain you're approximate grades and class standing.

I'm a little surprised you got rejected from everywhere, though (especially if you applied to transfer-friendly schools like GW and WUSTL) unless you're not looking at the honors cut-offs correctly.

No, I'm looking at them correctly. Those aren't even the best to go off of, anyway... unless you got an e-mail that I didn't, the honors cut offs are based off of 1st semester's grades.

trbenton13 wrote:

keg411 wrote:As someone transferring from your school, I think in your position you should stay, unless you really really want to go back and work in Indiana and can manage to get in-state tuition there. Also, I don't know if you'll necessarily be able to get a District Court or CoA clerkship from Rutgers, but you might be able to get a State Appellate clerkship and you can easily get a State Trial clerkship if you maintain you're approximate grades and class standing.

I'm a little surprised you got rejected from everywhere, though (especially if you applied to transfer-friendly schools like GW and WUSTL) unless you're not looking at the honors cut-offs correctly.

No, I'm looking at them correctly. Those aren't even the best to go off of, anyway... unless you got an e-mail that I didn't, the honors cut offs are based off of 1st semester's grades.

There were Spring Semester cut-offs as well, but they were almost exactly the same (ask around and someone probably has them). I think about half the class got that e-mail and half didn't (because I didn't, but a bunch of other people I know did and this was before I was committed to transferring). Personally, I always just assumed 3.7 was approximately top 10% since that was the grade-on to the secondary journals cut-off.

This is a tough call, though I think i'd say stay. even though, given your Indiana connections, you might be able to land a decent job in Indiana, you'll face an uphill battle anywhere else. OCI at IUB is going to be very competitive as it is, given that there aren't many employers coming this year, so i would imagine it would be even harder for a transfer with no grades. while i agree with what someone on here said about IUB not placing like it's USN rank, it's still a great school with a ton of top notch professors. plus, it's on the rise and i don't agree with a lot of the doomsayers on TLS that predict a precipitous drop in its ranking over the next few years. it will probably never crack the Top 20, but I think it's going to be a T25 school for the foreseeable future. So it's reputation is only going to increase.

Short-term, however, I think you would be better off staying where you're at, because IUB still has a few years before it begins placing more in proportion with its ranking. Mine your prof connections at Rutgers and mass mail like heck and i'm sure you'll get something.

I'd transfer. Disclaimer, I spent this past year at Indiana. But I'm transferring. But I think it is an excellent school.

The bottom line, imo, is that both schools are regional. If you and your SO know and like the midwest and dislike the east, then go back now. For opportunities in Indiana, true, OCI will be tough and you might not get exactly where you want to be right away, but for both schools, location is SO important.

crazyblink653 wrote: Short-term, however, I think you would be better off staying where you're at, because IUB still has a few years before it begins placing more in proportion with its ranking. Mine your prof connections at Rutgers and mass mail like heck and i'm sure you'll get something.

For as far as we have decent info (2005), it's never placed in proportion with its ranking. That's six years. I'm not sure why you think it will start to all of a sudden.

Forget placement. Go to IUB because you are from Indiana. New Jersey is a terribly saturated legal market.

Stay. Top 10% at Rutgers gets you a job (even a shot at NLJ250). Median students at IUB are fighting tooth and nail for $45k jobs. And there is no way in hell you get a federal clerkship as an IUB transfer.

Transferring has a non-negligible risk of becoming financial suicide for you. Little upside + TONS of downside = stay.