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Hello everyone. I was wondering if anyone could give me some much needed advice. I was admitted to GW and AU's law schools. I am facing a rapidly approaching deposit deadline and would appreciate any advice. I am unsure which law school would be better. I am interested in becoming a clerk following graduation (ideally federal) and afterwards going into public service.

Second (unrelated) question is what are my chances of getting off the wait list at Georgetown?

Thank you for any help.

If no scholarship money at either, then GW for sure.

I don't know what your chances are at Georgetown, but GW is a much superior law school than american.

Thanks for the advice. Any reason why GW is better? (And I am very uninterested in IP law)

m1234 wrote:Thanks for the advice. Any reason why GW is better? (And I am very uninterested in IP law)

Better reputation and job prospects? What other reasons for transfer are there?

Those are two main reasons. But I was wondering more in terms of my career goals for clerkships and public service. For example, AU ranks higher in percentage of students going into clerkships and for public interest, but GW is ranked higher overall in USNWR. I was wondering about how to weigh the two against each other with those goals in mind. Thanks

If you want to clerk, you are probably better off not transferring. You will need those recommendations from faculty.

Danteshek wrote:If you want to clerk, you are probably better off not transferring. You will need those recommendations from faculty.

I hear that a lot.

Isn't there still enough time at a transfer school to forge faculty relationships that one will need for recommendations? Or are faculty members more reticent in general to take on a transfer student's cause?

missinglink wrote:

Danteshek wrote:If you want to clerk, you are probably better off not transferring. You will need those recommendations from faculty.

I hear that a lot.

Isn't there still enough time at a transfer school to forge faculty relationships that one will need for recommendations? Or are faculty members more reticent in general to take on a transfer student's cause?

It's a tough slog if you transfer. You will need to develop strong relationships with key faculty members, and your new classmates will have a big jump on you. You will also have to repeat your stellar academic performance, which is far from guaranteed.

m1234 wrote:Those are two main reasons. But I was wondering more in terms of my career goals for clerkships and public service. For example, AU ranks higher in percentage of students going into clerkships and for public interest, but GW is ranked higher overall in USNWR. I was wondering about how to weigh the two against each other with those goals in mind. Thanks

Aside from the question whether to transfer at all, GW wins if the question is GW vs. AU. I know GW has a better reputation among PI employers, at least in DC.

Do you know the breakdown of % AU & GW students going into clerkships and PI and the kinds of clerkships? The large size of the PI sector could be masking AU's better performance there. I'm skeptical that AU students have better prospects for clerkships & PI. Also, don't judges care about school rankings too?

If quality of life counts at all, one of my good friends attended AU's evening program and did not like it. He said the curve sucks and the school wasn't that supportive. He never took the bar. Also, AU and GW's costs are comparable.

About Georgetown - have you been sending LOCIs?

GW is a way better school than American. Not even close. They're comparable in COA but GW is in the heart of DC. GW has a much better reputation amongst DC lawyers and the professors and GW as a whole is much better connected than American in various industries. That means better opportunities for employment beyond the typical law firm so even if you can't get a clerkship or PI, there are going to be more avenues open.

schooner wrote:

m1234 wrote:Those are two main reasons. But I was wondering more in terms of my career goals for clerkships and public service. For example, AU ranks higher in percentage of students going into clerkships and for public interest, but GW is ranked higher overall in USNWR. I was wondering about how to weigh the two against each other with those goals in mind. Thanks

Aside from the question whether to transfer at all, GW wins if the question is GW vs. AU. I know GW has a better reputation among PI employers, at least in DC.

Do you know the breakdown of % AU & GW students going into clerkships and PI and the kinds of clerkships? The large size of the PI sector could be masking AU's better performance there. I'm skeptical that AU students have better prospects for clerkships & PI. Also, don't judges care about school rankings too?

If quality of life counts at all, one of my good friends attended AU's evening program and did not like it. He said the curve sucks and the school wasn't that supportive. He never took the bar. Also, AU and GW's costs are comparable.

About Georgetown - have you been sending LOCIs?

GW has 6% of students going into judicial clerkships following graduation and AU has 10%. Out of that percentage AU had 2.2% in federal and GW had 4% with federal clerkships.
Prelaw magazine and the National Jurist placed AU significantly higher than GW for public interest (based on a bunch of factors such as the student body, curriculum, and financial factors.

m1234 wrote:GW has 6% of students going into judicial clerkships following graduation and AU has 10%. Out of that percentage AU had 2.2% in federal and GW had 4% with federal clerkships.
For public interest the National Jurist did a ranking based on student involvement, curriculum, and financial factors and AU placed 4th.

I would be very skeptical of that National Jurist ranking because it includes factors irrelevant to overall job prospects. It doesn't matter if 100% of the study body volunteers with a nonprofit organization or Young Republicans/Young Democrats if none of them landed a decent PI or govt job. GW has a superior reputation among govt & nonprofit employers in DC, the most sought-after ones anyway.

Edit: Usually I shy away from yes/no answers to questions like these, but in this case, you should pick GW. It's far better than AU. If you get into Georgetown off the waitlist, go there.

Danteshek wrote:

missinglink wrote:

Danteshek wrote:If you want to clerk, you are probably better off not transferring. You will need those recommendations from faculty.

I hear that a lot.

Isn't there still enough time at a transfer school to forge faculty relationships that one will need for recommendations? Or are faculty members more reticent in general to take on a transfer student's cause?

It's a tough slog if you transfer. You will need to develop strong relationships with key faculty members, and your new classmates will have a big jump on you. You will also have to repeat your stellar academic performance, which is far from guaranteed.

Let's be honest here. If you're in a school where either GW or AU is a worthwhile move up, then you're likely not getting a clerkship if you stay put. Relationships with professors don't matter at a school that can't place you anywhere.

Thanks for the advice. It's appreciated.
I have basically no shot at a federal clerkship at my current school. This is one of many reasons I'm transferring. And I am aware a federal clerkship is highly unlikely even if I do transfer, but would at least like a shot at one.

m1234 wrote:Second (unrelated) question is what are my chances of getting off the wait list at Georgetown?

For what it's worth, a couple years ago (surprisingly) not a single person got off Gtown's transfer waitlist (including the "preferred wait list").

Are you at least on the "preferred wait list"? If you are, then you might have a cunthair chance of getting in. If it's just the regular wait list, I don't think you are going to get in.

m1234 wrote:Thanks for the advice. It's appreciated.
I have basically no shot at a federal clerkship at my current school. This is one of many reasons I'm transferring. And I am aware a federal clerkship is highly unlikely even if I do transfer, but would at least like a shot at one.

Be very honest about your reasons for wanting this "shot" so badly. Too many people sacrifice too much gunning for a federal clerkship simply for the prestige.

schooner wrote:

m1234 wrote:GW has 6% of students going into judicial clerkships following graduation and AU has 10%. Out of that percentage AU had 2.2% in federal and GW had 4% with federal clerkships.
For public interest the National Jurist did a ranking based on student involvement, curriculum, and financial factors and AU placed 4th.

I would be very skeptical of that National Jurist ranking because it includes factors irrelevant to overall job prospects. It doesn't matter if 100% of the study body volunteers with a nonprofit organization or Young Republicans/Young Democrats if none of them landed a decent PI or govt job. GW has a superior reputation among govt & nonprofit employers in DC, the most sought-after ones anyway.

Edit: Usually I shy away from yes/no answers to questions like these, but in this case, you should pick GW. It's far better than AU. If you get into Georgetown off the waitlist, go there.

Thanks for the advice. I try not to put an emphasis on rankings and you confirmed my suspicions.

XxSpyKEx wrote:

m1234 wrote:Second (unrelated) question is what are my chances of getting off the wait list at Georgetown?

For what it's worth, a couple years ago (surprisingly) not a single person got off Gtown's transfer waitlist (including the "preferred wait list").

Are you at least on the "preferred wait list"? If you are, then you might have a cunthair chance of getting in. If it's just the regular wait list, I don't think you are going to get in.

Thank you for the info. I had no idea how the waitlist worked.

XxSpyKEx wrote:

m1234 wrote:Second (unrelated) question is what are my chances of getting off the wait list at Georgetown?

For what it's worth, a couple years ago (surprisingly) not a single person got off Gtown's transfer waitlist (including the "preferred wait list").

Are you at least on the "preferred wait list"? If you are, then you might have a cunthair chance of getting in. If it's just the regular wait list, I don't think you are going to get in.

If their transfer waitlists work anything like their regular waitlists (and I would bet they probably do), the preferred distinction probably means little if anything at all.

bk187 wrote:

XxSpyKEx wrote:

m1234 wrote:Second (unrelated) question is what are my chances of getting off the wait list at Georgetown?

For what it's worth, a couple years ago (surprisingly) not a single person got off Gtown's transfer waitlist (including the "preferred wait list").

Are you at least on the "preferred wait list"? If you are, then you might have a cunthair chance of getting in. If it's just the regular wait list, I don't think you are going to get in.

If their transfer waitlists work anything like their regular waitlists (and I would bet they probably do), the preferred distinction probably means little if anything at all.

I talked to admissions and they claim they do not have a "preferred waitlist" for Transfers. I dont know if this is true and if anyone has anymore information please share. Also, if anyone has any infomration or was accepted off the transfer waitlist in past years and could shed some light it would be much appreciated!

nola34 wrote:

bk187 wrote:

XxSpyKEx wrote:

m1234 wrote:Second (unrelated) question is what are my chances of getting off the wait list at Georgetown?

For what it's worth, a couple years ago (surprisingly) not a single person got off Gtown's transfer waitlist (including the "preferred wait list").

Are you at least on the "preferred wait list"? If you are, then you might have a cunthair chance of getting in. If it's just the regular wait list, I don't think you are going to get in.

If their transfer waitlists work anything like their regular waitlists (and I would bet they probably do), the preferred distinction probably means little if anything at all.

I talked to admissions and they claim they do not have a "preferred waitlist" for Transfers. I dont know if this is true and if anyone has anymore information please share. Also, if anyone has any infomration or was accepted off the transfer waitlist in past years and could shed some light it would be much appreciated!

Yeah I have no idea about now. A couple years ago they definitely had some kind of a tiered wait lists, including a preferred wait list. It really made no difference, though, since no one on any of the wait lists was admitted.