Top Law Schools

Okay, I've been wrestling with this for a few weeks now and I figure the awesome wisdom of TLS will help me. I realize 7/1 is the deadline too.

I'm top 15% at a T2. I pay sticker. I'm currently in the process of negotiating scholarship money at my school. If I don't get enough money that makes it attractive to stay, should I transfer?

I'm looking at GW, BC/BU, Fordham, etc. My endgame is environmental law. GW is attractive, if I get in, because of the D.C. location. The others are just higher ranked schools I'd rather pay for than my current school at the price I'm currently paying. I'm not too big into biglaw, but I'll take it if my environmental options don't pan out. Just FYI, my rank would get me almost every initial screener at my T2 (large secondary, 30+ big firms). I interview well and am very personable. Just by the way of proof, I managed to almost lock down an SA at my dream firm after first semester when my class rank wasn't nearly as good - so it had to have been my interviewing skills that carried me into the CB and beyond.

Bros and broettes, help me.

Hey dude. Do you have a preferred target market? If I remember correctly you're currently in the Philly area. I think that, especially in your situation, the place that you ultimately will want to end up makes a big difference.

GeePee wrote:Hey dude. Do you have a preferred target market? If I remember correctly you're currently in the Philly area. I think that, especially in your situation, the place that you ultimately will want to end up makes a big difference.

Yep. If you want to stay in Philly, I wouldn't go to GW or BU/BC when you can pick up as many Philly screeners as you want where you are. Maybe if you were open to NYC or something, since the cost would be about the same, but then you might be burning your bridges in Philly if they question why you left the city in the first place.

Apply & see what develops. Consider applying to Duke since, even though it is a reach, you are eligible to apply as a transfer without being in the top 5% or top 10% as required by many top law schools.

GeePee wrote:Hey dude. Do you have a preferred target market? If I remember correctly you're currently in the Philly area. I think that, especially in your situation, the place that you ultimately will want to end up makes a big difference.

I suppose I "prefer" Philly, but I'm open to just about anything. I go to Villanova, and I don't think it'd be impossible to spin "my school has really been pissing me off with all that's gone on this year, and I wanted to be sure my degree doesn't devalue" etc. etc. In reality that's not really true, but it's not exactly far fetched either. I'm not in the running for Penn, so I'd pretty much have to leave the city to go to a better school. Also, @strat, I'd be down for NYC no problem. My life as I know it is in Philly, but a change of scenery is cool with me.

CanadianWolf wrote:Apply & see what develops. Consider applying to Duke since, even though it is a reach, you are eligible to apply as a transfer without being in the top 5% or top 10% as required by many top law schools.

What would you put my odds for Duke at? 10%?

Zero (0%) percent if you don't apply. Otherwise odds depend upon how many spaces are available, how many transfer applications are received & how well you plead your case. Duke had 20% fewer applications for first year admissions this cycle compared to last cycle. All you need is one strong advocate on the admissions committee.

beach_terror wrote:

GeePee wrote:Hey dude. Do you have a preferred target market? If I remember correctly you're currently in the Philly area. I think that, especially in your situation, the place that you ultimately will want to end up makes a big difference.

I suppose I "prefer" Philly, but I'm open to just about anything. I go to Villanova, and I don't think it'd be impossible to spin "my school has really been pissing me off with all that's gone on this year, and I wanted to be sure my degree doesn't devalue" etc. etc. In reality that's not really true, but it's not exactly far fetched either. I'm not in the running for Penn, so I'd pretty much have to leave the city to go to a better school. Also, @strat, I'd be down for NYC no problem. My life as I know it is in Philly, but a change of scenery is cool with me.

CanadianWolf wrote:Apply & see what develops. Consider applying to Duke since, even though it is a reach, you are eligible to apply as a transfer without being in the top 5% or top 10% as required by many top law schools.

What would you put my odds for Duke at? 10%?

Yeah, then I'd probably do it unless they threw mad money at me. Just send 'em out everywhere and see what sticks

CanadianWolf wrote:Zero (0%) percent if you don't apply. Otherwise odds depend upon how many spaces are available, how many transfer applications are received & how well you plead your case. Duke had 20% fewer applications for first year admissions this cycle compared to last cycle. All you need is one strong advocate on the admissions committee.

Thank you for that necessary, and totally not obvious, statement.

stratocophic wrote:Yeah, then I'd probably do it unless they threw mad money at me. Just send 'em out everywhere and see what sticks

Okay, how far up do we think I have a reasonable shot of getting in at? Applying to transfer is crazy expensive. I'll toss in some reaches, but not a ridiculous amount.

My point is that it is a useless exercise trying to guesstimate odds of admission in this situation. If I estimated your odds at 16% or at 26%, it really shouldn't affect your decision as to whether or not to apply since Duke may be your only shot at a top 12 law school (Cornell requires top 10%).

Top 15% at Villanova Law isn't likely to get you into the top 14, but Georgetown & Duke are worth a shot, in my opinion. Much may depend upon your recommendations from current law profs.

P.S. Hope that wasn't too obvious to you already.

CanadianWolf wrote:My point is that it is a useless exercise trying to guesstimate odds of admission in this situation. If I estimated your odds at 16% or at 26%, it really shouldn't affect your decision as to whether or not to apply since Duke may be your only shot at a top 12 law school (Cornell requires top 10%).

Top 15% at Villanova Law isn't likely to get you into the top 14, but Georgetown & Duke are worth a shot, in my opinion. Much may depend upon your recommendations from current law profs.

P.S. Hope that wasn't too obvious to you already.

Thanks for the insight, I appreciate it. I guess I was more asking whether there was any realistic shot. I might as well toss an app out. Do they typically give fee waivers for transfer apps (I could probably look this up) if I email and ask?

Current list:
GW
Georgetown
Duke
BC & BU
Fordham

Look reasonable?

Honestly I'm not convinced transferring to BC/BU/Fordham/GW would increase your employment prospects, but I'm open to being told that I'm wrong. Do you have any chance of LR at Nova?

GeePee wrote:Honestly I'm not convinced transferring to BC/BU/Fordham/GW would increase your employment prospects, but I'm open to being told that I'm wrong. Do you have any chance of LR at Nova?

Only shot is writing on, and I'm not sure how good my chances are (I worked my ass off on the competition though). I'll definitely get a secondary journal though. I was 2-10 spots shy of grading on.

duke would be solid, but i think your best reason for transferring here is if you want to target a different market (which sounds like gw/gulc), especially if you have a decent shot at LR. is your LR a combination of grade/write-on, or all writing if you miss the grade cut-off?

fatduck wrote:duke would be solid, but i think your best reason for transferring here is if you want to target a different market (which sounds like gw/gulc), especially if you have a decent shot at LR. is your LR a combination of grade/write-on, or all writing if you miss the grade cut-off?

All writing if you miss the grade cut-off. If I only got a B+ instead of a B in my 5 credit property

beach_terror wrote:

fatduck wrote:duke would be solid, but i think your best reason for transferring here is if you want to target a different market (which sounds like gw/gulc), especially if you have a decent shot at LR. is your LR a combination of grade/write-on, or all writing if you miss the grade cut-off?

All writing if you miss the grade cut-off. If I only got a B+ instead of a B in my 5 credit property

ouch

We've spoken through PM, so you know who I am and what my experience enatils. T
hese are my predictions.

beach_terror wrote: Current list:
GW ~ pretty good shot, since the xfer class is like 34098430948307430 people (srsly, though, about 100)
Georgetown ~ probably out, but possibly held until the last minute then admitted...e.g. after bidding deadlines end...so probably not very good odds here
Duke ~ undoubtedly out...sorry
BC & BU ~ slightly lower odds than GW, since their xfer classes are smaller...unless you've got a particularly compelling reason to be in beantown....
Fordham ~ from what I've heard, similar to BC/BU since xfer class here isn't that big...again, unless you've got a good reason...

It sounds like perhaps you would be better off staying where you're at. You already said that you'll qualify for nearly all of the pre-select interviews at your school. You might have access to a larger and more prestigious pool of OCI employers at your targets (at least the ones which use a lottery). However, it seems like many of these slots would be a waste of your time since they would not have even considered you with your grades at Villanova (and median students at your targets, whom you'll sometimes be grouped with in the employer's mind, aren't exactly cleaning up ITE).

I don't see the point in tossing yourself into an unfamiliar market at schools which are placing 20-30% into biglaw when you seem to have better odds than that at your current school.

NarwhalPunter wrote:It sounds like perhaps you would be better off staying where you're at. You already said that you'll qualify for nearly all of the pre-select interviews at your school. You might have access to a larger and more prestigious pool of OCI employers at your targets (at least the ones which use a lottery). However, it seems like many of these slots would be a waste of your time since they would not have even considered you with your grades at Villanova (and median students at your targets, whom you'll sometimes be grouped with in the employer's mind, aren't exactly cleaning up ITE).

I don't see the point in tossing yourself into an unfamiliar market at schools which are placing 20-30% into biglaw when you seem to have better odds than that at your current school.

Well, my endgame is environmental law. GW would be good because it's in DC, and DC is where it's at for that. I'm really interested in government work, but I also realize it's super selective too.

beach_terror wrote:

NarwhalPunter wrote:It sounds like perhaps you would be better off staying where you're at. You already said that you'll qualify for nearly all of the pre-select interviews at your school. You might have access to a larger and more prestigious pool of OCI employers at your targets (at least the ones which use a lottery). However, it seems like many of these slots would be a waste of your time since they would not have even considered you with your grades at Villanova (and median students at your targets, whom you'll sometimes be grouped with in the employer's mind, aren't exactly cleaning up ITE).

I don't see the point in tossing yourself into an unfamiliar market at schools which are placing 20-30% into biglaw when you seem to have better odds than that at your current school.

Well, my endgame is environmental law. GW would be good because it's in DC, and DC is where it's at for that. I'm really interested in government work, but I also realize it's super selective too.

Gotcha. Why not just apply to GULC/GW and scratch the rest then? Fordham especially seems like financial suicide given that you can't participate in EIP as a transfer. BC and BU seem equally pointless.

Unless you're just trying to snag a random acceptance to use as leverage for scholarship money. In that case, I'd toss an app at WUSTL.

NarwhalPunter wrote:

beach_terror wrote:

NarwhalPunter wrote:It sounds like perhaps you would be better off staying where you're at. You already said that you'll qualify for nearly all of the pre-select interviews at your school. You might have access to a larger and more prestigious pool of OCI employers at your targets (at least the ones which use a lottery). However, it seems like many of these slots would be a waste of your time since they would not have even considered you with your grades at Villanova (and median students at your targets, whom you'll sometimes be grouped with in the employer's mind, aren't exactly cleaning up ITE).

I don't see the point in tossing yourself into an unfamiliar market at schools which are placing 20-30% into biglaw when you seem to have better odds than that at your current school.

Well, my endgame is environmental law. GW would be good because it's in DC, and DC is where it's at for that. I'm really interested in government work, but I also realize it's super selective too.

Gotcha. Why not just apply to GULC/GW and scratch the rest then? Fordham especially seems like financial suicide given that you can't participate in EIP as a transfer. BC and BU seem equally pointless.

Unless you're just trying to snag a random acceptance to use as leverage for scholarship money. In that case, I'd toss an app at WUSTL.

Bingo. I'll add WUSTL then too, thanks! GW/GULC are two I'd actually go to though.

gulc deadline passed I thought

GW and GULC was this past week.

mrosmith wrote:GW and GULC was this past week.

GW: The deadlines for submission of transfer applications are July 1 for the fall semester and December 1 for the spring semester.

I love how you say you'll "take" biglaw if your environmental plans dont work out

thecilent wrote:I love how you say you'll "take" biglaw if your environmental plans dont work out

Thanks 0L. When you finish your first year, come talk.