Top Law Schools

Hey guys!

tbh I had not even thought about transferring before this point, because I thought I totally screwed the pooch with second semester, and I assumed my grades were going to be awful.

Er, they weren't. With one grade missing, I'm in the top 1% of my class right now at UVa.

My career goals are basically public service (I'd like to do impact litigation or civil rights work at a place like Lambda Legal or the ACLU, or work for the government in the DOJ). I'd also really like to do a clerkship. I'd either like to work in the DC area or San Francisco (family's out there).

I know Stanford's deadline already passed, and I know the other deadlines are really, really soon. I know I have a professor or two I can go to right now to give me a really great recommendation. But from the sticky post "advice for transfers," I think I can either get into Harvard or Yale with my GPA at UVa.

Side note: I really do love it here. I have great friends, the atmosphere rocks, Charlottesville is beautiful, and I'm just all-around enjoying myself.

I'm just wondering if I'm being stupid by not taking advantage of my 1L grades to transfer to Yale or Harvard.

Help!

given your stated interest in public service or gov, i don't know that a transfer will benefit you that much. If you wanted academia, I would say apply to Yale for sure, because your numbers are exactly what it takes to get in there. But especially for DOJ, your proximity to DC and ranking should make it fairly attainable. There may be some slight boost for really elite public interest stuff if you got to Harvard (which surely you would be accepted there), but I wouldn't say its enough to make up for what you might lose. Given your top 1% ranking + assumed LR, and all the connections you will make for DC, it seems wise to stay, especially considering how late in the game you are. The one compelling reason you had to transfer to S - west coast family - seems to have gone by.

Depending on what kind of scholarship you're on, it might be worth it to transfer for the superior LRAP if you're interested in PI.

In terms of getting a job or a clerkship, if you're top 1% at UVA then every door in the world is open to you. H and Y won't give you any boost and might actually hurt you. Not that you'll be in bad shape there, of course.

tbh you guys are telling me exactly what I want to hear (which is nice, because I really want to stay here). I'm thinking of filling out the apps -- I have time, since I'm an RA this summer -- and just seeing what happens. Maybe I'll have a magical moment where I realize I HAVE to transfer (probably not, but I might as well do the apps anyway).

You should apply and see what happens. Don't rob yourself of the option to actually make the decision later.

Even if you decide against transferring, can't you use your acceptances (if any) to negotiate more money from UVA?

schooner wrote:You should apply and see what happens. Don't rob yourself of the option to actually make the decision later.

Even if you decide against transferring, can't you use your acceptances (if any) to negotiate more money from UVA?

Ha, the funny thing is I'm actually not getting any money to begin with from UVa -- I was on the margins of being accepted (I had a 3.9/168, and I tried to get money out of them once I got accepted but they flat-out refused).

Can you do that -- try to get money your second year? I have no idea. (If so, it'd be awesome.)

...

No way a transfer is worth it. You are essentially the top student at a Top 14 school. You will have every opportunity imaginable in front of you. Sit back and enjoy it! And congrats.

schooner wrote:

I assumed my grades were going to be awful.

Er, they weren't. With one grade missing, I'm in the top 1% of my class right now at UVa.

By the way, kudos for this! I'm really curious - why the mismatch in expectation vs reality? Care to share your secrets to success?

Thanks! I came out of two of my exams feeling as though I'd done terrible -- in fact, after my evidence exam, I literally cried (I forgot to answer a question and had to really rush to get it done).

Haha I wish I had some secrets to success to share, because then I'd know what I'm doing right! Let's see --

1. I type monstrously fast, so I'm able to write usually around 28-30 pages for each of my exams. The only one I wrote way less for (Contracts) was because the professor basically told us he doesn't want long exams.

2. I do all my own outlines from scratch. I usually go through an E&E or a hornbook first and make a skeleton outline from that (I'm always really careful to only include things I know the professor has talked about); then I go through my notes and fill in my outline from that; and last I go through the book. That part takes the longest, but it's really worth it. (I still usually don't bother reading the notes after the cases though, lol.)

3. I honestly really backload my semesters; whether or not this is actually smart is probably debatable, but it worked for me, haha. The first two months I just read the cases, maybe brief if I feel like it's going to be particularly important or if I'm on call for that day. I have a lot of free time in the evenings and I watch a lot of netflix. The last two weeks before finals is when I really started working intensely.

4. I don't highlight things. I've found that, oddly enough, I tune things out when I highlight them -- it's as though once I start highlighting, my brain goes, "Oh, you've learned that -- done!" and I don't pay attention to what I'm reading. So I write notes in margins, but that's it.

5. I have an amazing study group -- I'm really lucky in that respect. We don't study during the semester, but when it comes to finals, we have 1-2 really intense study sessions that are great for me because they highlight where I don't know things.

Geez, that's all I can think of. I feel like 0% of that was helpful because the law school study process is so individualized, but I guess it worked for me, at least.

kaiser wrote:No way a transfer is worth it. You are essentially the top student at a Top 14 school. You will have every opportunity imaginable in front of you. Sit back and enjoy it! And congrats.

haha I still feel like this isn't real life right now. It's going to hit me sometime soon, but right now it doesn't feel real.

Thanks for the advice.

...

itsirtou wrote:Can you do that -- try to get money your second year? I have no idea. (If so, it'd be awesome.)

To my knowledge, this can be done, but you need an acceptance from HYS in hand as leverage. It is definitely worth your time even if you really want to stay at UVA. Congratulations, by the way!

badwithpseudonyms wrote:

itsirtou wrote:Can you do that -- try to get money your second year? I have no idea. (If so, it'd be awesome.)

To my knowledge, this can be done, but you need an acceptance from HYS in hand as leverage. It is definitely worth your time even if you really want to stay at UVA. Congratulations, by the way!

AWESOME. Definitely worth my time to do a transfer app then so I can wring money out of UVa.

omg I feel like the entire world is made out of rainbows and glitter and happiness right now

Apply to HY for scholarship leveraging, but I wouldn't suggest actually transferring. You'll be able to grade onto law review and you'll probably be giving up some useful connections. Also, you're happy, which is really important.

And of course, congrats on the awesome grades!

...

BruceWayne wrote:

itsirtou wrote:Thanks! I came out of two of my exams feeling as though I'd done terrible -- in fact, after my evidence exam, I literally cried (I forgot to answer a question and had to really rush to get it done).

Haha I wish I had some secrets to success to share, because then I'd know what I'm doing right! Let's see --

1. I type monstrously fast, so I'm able to write usually around 28-30 pages for each of my exams. The only one I wrote way less for (Contracts) was because the professor basically told us he doesn't want long exams.2. I do all my own outlines from scratch. I usually go through an E&E or a hornbook first and make a skeleton outline from that (I'm always really careful to only include things I know the professor has talked about); then I go through my notes and fill in my outline from that; and last I go through the book. That part takes the longest, but it's really worth it. (I still usually don't bother reading the notes after the cases though, lol.)

3. I honestly really backload my semesters; whether or not this is actually smart is probably debatable, but it worked for me, haha. The first two months I just read the cases, maybe brief if I feel like it's going to be particularly important or if I'm on call for that day. I have a lot of free time in the evenings and I watch a lot of netflix. The last two weeks before finals is when I really started working intensely.

4. I don't highlight things. I've found that, oddly enough, I tune things out when I highlight them -- it's as though once I start highlighting, my brain goes, "Oh, you've learned that -- done!" and I don't pay attention to what I'm reading. So I write notes in margins, but that's it.

5. I have an amazing study group -- I'm really lucky in that respect. We don't study during the semester, but when it comes to finals, we have 1-2 really intense study sessions that are great for me because they highlight where I don't know things.

Geez, that's all I can think of. I feel like 0% of that was helpful because the law school study process is so individualized, but I guess it worked for me, at least.

This is incredibly helpful. Every person that I know who got amazing grades all typed up absurdly long exams. Quite frankly that was probably the number one key to your success. Fast typing is one of the most important steps to success in law school.

Never have I been so grateful to have a secretary for a mother -- I think I came out of the womb being able to type really fast, haha. I do know some people who have gotten great grades with short exams, but I think you may be right that typing long exams (as long as they're not rambling/bizarre/incoherent) really really helps. I'm just able to put a lot of information down in those 3-4 hours.

Helmholtz wrote:Apply to HY for scholarship leveraging, but I wouldn't suggest actually transferring. You'll be able to grade onto law review and you'll probably be giving up some useful connections. Also, you're happy, which is really important.

And of course, congrats on the awesome grades!

I think that's definitely the way to go. I have time to fill out apps, and if it's going to get me some money from UVa, I can't hardly NOT do it.

And thanks!

duckmoney wrote:Depending on what kind of scholarship you're on, it might be worth it to transfer for the superior LRAP if you're interested in PI.

In terms of getting a job or a clerkship, if you're top 1% at UVA then every door in the world is open to you. H and Y won't give you any boost and might actually hurt you. Not that you'll be in bad shape there, of course.

All of the above is true. It would be a mistake, IMO, for you to even try applying to HLS. (YLS, maybe, if you really really want to go there and are sure you'd go if accepted. Maybe.) The fact that you're only asking now means you already missed your only chance to make HLR; given that, you're in far better shape if you stay.

I'll PM a more detailed response. But short version: Don't even apply.

No, transferring would not be a career enhancing move. No, UVA won't give you any money, no matter how hard you try to transfer out of UVA.

I would Transfer.
People come and go Yale law degrees last a life time.

I mean IF you keep it up at UVA you can get the J. Harvie Wilkinson, III clerkship and then SCOTUS and get to the same place (High up in DOJ, or awesome firm work, or back to teach, or in to a great Civil rights firm/office). But if you slip that all becomes harder with a UVA degree, while it wont with a Yale JD.

underachiever wrote:I would Transfer.
People come and go Yale law degrees last a life time.

I mean IF you keep it up at UVA you can get the J. Harvie Wilkinson, III clerkship and then SCOTUS and get to the same place (High up in DOJ, or awesome firm work, or back to teach, or in to a great Civil rights firm/office). But if you slip that all becomes harder with a UVA degree, while it wont with a Yale JD.

This advice is terrible.

0L warning:

I can't imagine that transferring would be a good career move, but might a move to Yale be worth it if you could wring grant money out of them?

Yale is very generous with grant aid, and if you qualify then you could cut up to about 60K out of your total loans if you transferred. That, combined with their LRAP (if it covers the loans you took out to pay for UVA), might make for a huge difference in total costs and might make up for any loss in career opportunities. You also wouldn't have to worry as much about maintaining your GPA to be competitive for top-tier clerkships and the like.

I imagine that if I were in your shoes and didn't hate Charlottesville I'd stay, but it's worth crunching the $ numbers.

itsirtou wrote:Hey guys!


My career goals are basically public service (I'd like to do impact litigation or civil rights work at a place like Lambda Legal or the ACLU, or work for the government in the DOJ). I'd also really like to do a clerkship. I'd either like to work in the DC area or San Francisco (family's out there).


Help!

Ha!

schwar46 wrote:

itsirtou wrote:Hey guys!


My career goals are basically public service (I'd like to do impact litigation or civil rights work at a place like Lambda Legal or the ACLU, or work for the government in the DOJ). I'd also really like to do a clerkship. I'd either like to work in the DC area or San Francisco (family's out there).


Help!

Ha!

Did I say something weird...?

thesealocust wrote:

underachiever wrote:I would Transfer.
People come and go Yale law degrees last a life time.

I mean IF you keep it up at UVA you can get the J. Harvie Wilkinson, III clerkship and then SCOTUS and get to the same place (High up in DOJ, or awesome firm work, or back to teach, or in to a great Civil rights firm/office). But if you slip that all becomes harder with a UVA degree, while it wont with a Yale JD.

This advice is terrible.

+1.