Top Law Schools

Hello all,

I am actually pretty unhappy at my law school (ranked low 40s, high 50s depending on the poll) and would like to transfer to a school in the NYC area. I do not see the transfer worth it financially (since i am paying very little at my school now) unless the transfer is to NYU/Columbia.

I have a 3.525 (A, A-, A-, B+, B) after first semester which would put me in top 20% if the GPAs are similar to last years (the school doesn't publish what top 10% was, but grades on a B median). I have some good softs such as CALI award for highest grade in the section and winning a moot court competition.

I don't think a transfer to Fordham would be worth it... but I really want to get out of the school I am in. Thoughts?

What are your career goals?

You need to be in the top ~5% to have any chance at NYU/Columbia/Penn.

I'd like to work in NY... open to biglaw, but not set on biglaw. Really interested in a wide variety of paths.

If you can raise your GPA this semester, then you might put yourself in a position to transfer to one of those schools. From what I have read, it really takes a single-digit class rank to move from a school ranked about 50 to NYU or Columbia. Hell, I'm right around top 10% at a T25 and I still don't think my grades are high enough to make it into NYU or Columbia. Penn might be a tiny bit less strict.

If you can bring it up to ~top 8% you have a good shot at Penn, otherwise your best shot at transferring somewhere with good NYC biglaw placement is BU. Probably not worth it in your case.

Yeah I'm not sure exactly where my GPA puts me. Last year, at the end of 1L the quintiles were:

Top 20%: 3.724-3.406
20-40: 3.397-3.294
40-60: 3.282-3.170
60-80: 3.167-3.045
80-100: 3.042-2.497

Also - to add in... i'm not THAT concerned about biglaw NYC.

I'd just like to transfer to somewhere that financially would make sense to take out the additional loans and has better job prospects in NYC or Philadelphia. I'm at a state school now and therefore only pay in-state tuition.

Not sure what school you are at now, but it sounds like you would more realistically be looking at a school like Fordham or BU if you were looking to transfer up to a strong regional school that places well in NYC.

ms2010 wrote:Yeah I'm not sure exactly where my GPA puts me. Last year, at the end of 1L the quintiles were:

Top 20%: 3.724-3.406
20-40: 3.397-3.294
40-60: 3.282-3.170
60-80: 3.167-3.045
80-100: 3.042-2.497

Yeah you're definitely higher than 20% then, probably close to top 10%. You probably have a good shot at GULC EA, though financially it probably doesn't make sense. If you can bring up your GPA a little bit this semester I think you'll have a good shot at Penn. I think Penn would be worth it, but some might disagree.

You think GULC is only worth it if I want to be in DC?

ms2010 wrote:You think GULC is only worth it if I want to be in DC?

I think GULC is worth it if you truly are unhappy at your current school. I just meant it doesn't sound like it's worth it financially based on what you said in the OP.

dakatz wrote:Not sure what school you are at now, but it sounds like you would more realistically be looking at a school like Fordham or BU if you were looking to transfer up to a strong regional school that places well in NYC.

PSA: Fordham does not allow transfers to participate in OCI.

patrickd139 wrote:

dakatz wrote:Not sure what school you are at now, but it sounds like you would more realistically be looking at a school like Fordham or BU if you were looking to transfer up to a strong regional school that places well in NYC.

PSA: Fordham does not allow transfers to participate in OCI.

Incorrect. Due to scheduling, transfers cannot participate in EIW (early interview week,) but they are not excluded from the OCI process.

interesting. i don't see fordham as worth it though. right now i take about 2,000 bucks a year out in loans.

Harsh curve. Also--pretty lame not to have an A+ if you got the highest grade in a class, although I guess the award helps a little.

I think you actually could have an outside shot at Penn or even NYU, if you maintain or improve. Do you have solid recommendation options? If not, start cultivating them now. A great way to do this is to become a research assistant for one of your first semester professors. It can't hurt to ask.

Thanks for that optimism. I have 3 professors who have all offered to serve as references, so I will probably ask one of them for a recommendation.

I guess I should work on killer personal statement... again.

BrownBears09 wrote:

patrickd139 wrote:

dakatz wrote:Not sure what school you are at now, but it sounds like you would more realistically be looking at a school like Fordham or BU if you were looking to transfer up to a strong regional school that places well in NYC.

PSA: Fordham does not allow transfers to participate in OCI.

Incorrect. Due to scheduling, transfers cannot participate in EIW (early interview week,) but they are not excluded from the OCI process.

Isn't EIW the week where all the big firms come? At Harvard we call it EIP.

Saying they're "not excluded from the OCI process" is misleading if they are excluded from the week when the best interviews occur.

vanwinkle wrote:

BrownBears09 wrote:

patrickd139 wrote:

dakatz wrote:Not sure what school you are at now, but it sounds like you would more realistically be looking at a school like Fordham or BU if you were looking to transfer up to a strong regional school that places well in NYC.

PSA: Fordham does not allow transfers to participate in OCI.

Incorrect. Due to scheduling, transfers cannot participate in EIW (early interview week,) but they are not excluded from the OCI process.

Isn't EIW the week where all the big firms come? At Harvard we call it EIP.

Saying they're "not excluded from the OCI process" is misleading if they are excluded from the week when the best interviews occur.

C'mon, let's not split hairs. All? Doubtful. Most? Probably. Regardless of the proportion, stating "Fordham does not allow transfer to participate in OCI" is misleading. My statement is completely factual and hardly misleading. Transfers are not excluded from the OCI process.

BrownBears09 wrote:C'mon, let's not split hairs. All? Doubtful. Most? Probably. Regardless of the proportion, stating "Fordham does not allow transfer to participate in OCI" is misleading. My statement is completely factual and hardly misleading. Transfers are not excluded from the OCI process.

It's factual, perhaps, but a statement can be technically correct and also highly misleading at the same time.

People don't care whether or not they're "excluded from the process", they care about whether they're excluded from chances at interviews, and how many, and with which firms. It matters a lot whether the EIW week is the week that most firms and the biggest firms come. It's not a "regardless of the proportion" thing. If transfers are excluded from the one week where 90% of employers show up, then that's practically the same as being excluded from OCI entirely, even though they're still technically "included in the OCI process".

So no, it's not splitting hairs at all. Simply stating that they're not excluded from the process without also pointing out that the practical effect is nearly the same is incredibly misleading.

vanwinkle wrote:

BrownBears09 wrote:C'mon, let's not split hairs. All? Doubtful. Most? Probably. Regardless of the proportion, stating "Fordham does not allow transfer to participate in OCI" is misleading. My statement is completely factual and hardly misleading. Transfers are not excluded from the OCI process.

It's factual, perhaps, but a statement can be technically correct and also highly misleading at the same time.

People don't care whether or not they're "excluded from the process", they care about whether they're excluded from chances at interviews, and how many, and with which firms. It matters a lot whether the EIW week is the week that most firms and the biggest firms come. It's not a "regardless of the proportion" thing. If transfers are excluded from the one week where 90% of employers show up, then that's practically the same as being excluded from OCI entirely, even though they're still technically "included in the OCI process".

So no, it's not splitting hairs at all. Simply stating that they're not excluded from the process without also pointing out that the practical effect is nearly the same is incredibly misleading.

What a pointless argument to initiate. It's a true/false answer, there are no shades of gray. He made a hard and exclusive claim stating Fordham does not allow transfers to participate in OCI. That statement is incorrect.

Does Fordham allow transfers to participate in OCI?
[X] YES
[ ] NO

I never made a claim about what people "care about" nor do I want to know. I didn't write a philosophical expose with an underemphasized tone, and a hidden meaning, in an attempt to poison the minds of my readers. I corrected his factually incorrect claim. But hey, feel free to debate semantics and rhetoric.