Top Law Schools

Fall grades came out. Time to talk transfer.

Class Rank 20/192
GPA 3.513
LSAT 151
UGPA 3.07

If I keep up my rank, they'll pay for half my tuition plus a little extra for being in the honors program I was just invited to. I'm not looking to work at one of the slave ship, Big Law firms. Just a medium-sized firm in either DC or Chicago. Valpo has a decent grasp in Chicago (I hear) so I may stick it out here and collect $$$ and graduate with a fraction of the debt I would anywhere else.

What are my chances at
Notre Dame
IU Bloomington
GW Law
American
U Maryland
Chicago Kent

Thoughts?

You would have a reasonable shot at Chicago-Kent (T2). Most of the other schools are likely out of range unless you raise your class ranking. As you stand now, you are just outside the top 10% in a T4. A T1 transfer (even a lower T1) outside the top 10% will likely be challenging.


With that said, it is definitely worth sending an app to most of the schools on the list even if you just maintain your GPA. However, if you manage to break into the top 10% or the top 5% a lot of the schools on your list will become reachable.

BassQuark wrote: What are my chances at
Notre Dame- Out
IU Bloomington- Out
GW Law- Close call, probably not worth the $ though
American- In (See GW)
U Maryland- Close call, (See GW)
Chicago Kent- In

Keep in mind that those trying to break into the DC market from schools across the ranking and geographic spectrums are getting destroyed. And not just those gunning for the "slave ship" firms.

Thanks folks. I'll keep this mind.

Keep in mind that those trying to break into the DC market from schools across the ranking and geographic spectrums are getting destroyed. And not just those gunning for the "slave ship" firms

Why do you say they are being "destroyed"? Being destroyed in school? In practice? Where have you heard this?

BassQuark wrote:Fall grades came out. Time to talk transfer.

Class Rank 20/192
GPA 3.513
LSAT 151
UGPA 3.07

If I keep up my rank, they'll pay for half my tuition plus a little extra for being in the honors program I was just invited to. I'm not looking to work at one of the slave ship, Big Law firms. Just a medium-sized firm in either DC or Chicago. Valpo has a decent grasp in Chicago (I hear) so I may stick it out here and collect $$$ and graduate with a fraction of the debt I would anywhere else.

What are my chances at
Notre Dame
IU Bloomington
GW Law
American
U Maryland
Chicago Kent

Thoughts?

Just so you know, midsize firms in DC and Chicago are really competitive (especially in DC). Also, midsize firms are just as big of slave ships as large firms, if not worse because they don’t pay as well. So basically you are going to bill the same 2,250+ hours per year at the midsize firm, but will only make a fraction of the money. I actually got a buddy who worked at a decent midsize firm in Chicago last summer and he said he was billing 55+ hours /week as a summer associate (because there was a lot of pressure to avoid getting no-offered). Conversely, another buddy who worked at Sidley in Chicago said he was billing something like 15 hours as a summer associate. Granted, the top firms wine and dine their summer associates more, even as a 1st year associate in midlaw, I think you are in for a surprise if you think you are not going to working a shitload of hours. Also, getting midlaw in this environment from either market is going to take a LOT of luck and/or connections coming from Valpo.

Re: your chances- you probably have a shot at most of these schools if your class rank increases a bit. Just as a point of reference, Dean Pless told me the other year that I needed top 1/3 to transfer from my t3 to UIUC. I think that’s probably the extreme, but I imagine top 10% would have been sufficient.

BassQuark wrote:Thanks folks. I'll keep this mind.

Keep in mind that those trying to break into the DC market from schools across the ranking and geographic spectrums are getting destroyed. And not just those gunning for the "slave ship" firms

Why do you say they are being "destroyed"? Being destroyed in school? In practice? Where have you heard this?

Neither school nor practice, but in finding biglaw jobs. DC is a tough, tough nut to crack. Not saying it's impossible, nor that your chances would not be improved by transferring to a DC school. Simply that you should not assume that transferring to, say GULC, will net you DC big or midlaw.

Your LSAT and UGPA do not matter at all anymore. Including them in any discussion is pointless. All that matters now is current class rank, possibly softs if they're strong enough, and your motives for transferring.

20/192 is very nearly top 10%. You should aim this semester for trying to increase your GPA as much as possible, do whatever work you need in order to get an even higher GPA, and hope that at a minimum that keeps you at the level you are now. The higher your GPA/rank the better your chances are.

DC is a mess right now. It's never hired at the same numbers as NYC, and like everywhere else they cut back hiring during the recession there too. People at every school from HYS on down want to work in DC, you've got people from every T14 and a number of local schools gunning for jobs there. DC firms, and I don't mean just the big "slave ship" firms, have the luxury of picking and choosing who they want to hire from a massive pool of applicants eager to get any kind of work they can in the city. Many students even at UVA and GULC, which are the local T14 feeders into DC, have been striking out with DC firms in recent years. Nobody's saying it's impossible to find work there, but DC is a very hard market to get into right now.

If you want to aim for Chicago I'd consider looking at UIUC, Northwestern, and Michigan. I don't have any direct knowledge on what they require for transfers, but you should be able to find something out about whether people at your school have successfully transferred to those schools before and what rank they had.

Oki doki. After some soul-searching I've narrowed down my picks to the Pacific NW. I figured even if I end up doing DWIs and ambulance chasing in a podunk town, I'll still be around some incredible nature that doesn't cost a lot of money to enjoy.

To recap:
Top 10% at Valpo.

I'm looking at
U. of Washington (#34)
U. of Colorado (#38)
Lewis and Clark (#64)
U. of Denver (#80)
U. of Seattle (#86)

( I know I just said pacific NW but these two schools are way more aware of VU than anyone else.)
IU Bloomington (#27)
Notre Dame (#26)

Thoughts?

BassQuark wrote:
To recap:
Just OutsideTop 10% at Valpo.

I'm looking at
U. of Washington (#34)
U. of Colorado (#38)
Lewis and Clark (#64)
U. of Denver (#80)
U. of Seattle (#86)

( I know I just said pacific NW but these two schools are way more aware of VU than anyone else.)
IU Bloomington (#27)
Notre Dame (#26)

Thoughts?

You have a great shot at LandC, Denver, and Seattle. That being said, you're going to want to raise your rank into the 7th or 8th percentile (minimum) to give yourself a better shot at the other schools on your list.

Work your butt off this semester, raise your rank a little bit. Apply to all these schools and profit.

Good luck.