Michigan State or William Mitchell Forum

[Lawgirl77]

I've been accepted to both these schools as a transfer student from a Tier 4 school. These are both Tier 3 schools. I'm having a hard time deciding where I want to go. Any suggestions, or pros/cons? Thanks!

[apper123]

do you want to work in michigan or minnesota?

answer that question, and you'll have your answer!

[gustrock]

William MItchell is a T2 now.

[You Gotta Have Faith]

I don't honestly know a lot about either school other than that Chief Justice Burger went to Wm. Mitchell. I'm told Wm. Mitchell has a good local reputation as well... but I'm not from there so that is only hearsay.

Which one would be cheaper? (are you in-state in Michigan?) Which area do you find more appealing? Just a few things to consider.

I'd personally pick Wm Mitchell because I've heard good things. But I'd also research Michigan State before making a decision. Good luck!

[Lawgirl77]

Thanks everyone for your input. I don't plan to practice in either state, as of now. I hate winters. Is William Mitchell really a T2? Where do you find that out? I was leaning more towards MSU because it is recognized and known nationally, so for eg. if I end up in CA, they know MSU, they do not know William Mitchell. I am transferring from Cooley and although Cooley is a great school, they have a really bad reputation, particularly outside of the school. Cost wise, both MSU and William Mitchell are very very similar.

[You Gotta Have Faith]

Thanks everyone for your input. I don't plan to practice in either state, as of now. I hate winters. Is William Mitchell really a T2? Where do you find that out? I was leaning more towards MSU because it is recognized and known nationally, so for eg. if I end up in CA, they know MSU, they do not know William Mitchell. I am transferring from Cooley and although Cooley is a great school, they have a really bad reputation, particularly outside of the school. Cost wise, both MSU and William Mitchell are very very similar.

1) I would argue that within the legal field itself, one is not better known than another. Assuming you do legal work... lay awareness shouldn't factor in.

2) To find this rankings information, look up the USNWR rankings. They are on their site as well as on this TLS site.

3) If you're wanting to end up in a particular area, do some research and find out where these schools' alumni end up working and if there is any sizeable base where you want to go. Generally speaking, the larger the base = the less work you'll have cut out for you.

[cartercl]

There are 6 BigLaw firms in Minneapolis, all with WM grads. Don't know much about Michigan St., but WM is solid in Minneapolis.

[LavAzza2004]

I'm from MN (currently living in Minneapolis but leaving for law school elsewhere). WM certainly has a decent reputation in MN and is the next closest thing to competing with the U of MN, but everyone essentially agrees it's a very regional school. It's aim isn't necessarily to prep you to practice elsewhere - they prepare grads to do well in MN and maybe the surrounding areas. I can't speak to MSU. Minneapolis, however, is a great place - it's a small "big city" with tons to do and a reasonable cost of living. I'd be happy staying here if I didn't feel the urge just to try something different. Good luck! WM is a good option...but be prepared to have a tougher time if you try to leave this area. I also know some recent WM grads who are having a very tough time in this economy, even in MN. A lot depends on what you want to do, obviously.

[Lawgirl77]

William Mitchell moved from Tier 3 to Top 100 school now for 2011. Guess I made my decision! Thanks for the input guys!

[You Gotta Have Faith]

William Mitchell moved from Tier 3 to Top 100 school now for 2011. Guess I made my decision! Thanks for the input guys!

I'm glad everyone has been of service to you. However, I do wish to caution you about making a decision exclusively off of rankings. They DO fluctuate from year to year (only two years ago MSU was 87, I think). You really should research both schools and make sure you will be happy at the one you choose, taking into account a host of factors. Just my $0.02. But in any case, Wm Mitchell sounds like it would be a good choice (were I in your shoes). Then again, I don't know much about Michigan State.

[cartercl]

William Mitchell moved from Tier 3 to Top 100 school now for 2011. Guess I made my decision! Thanks for the input guys!

I'm glad everyone has been of service to you. However, I do wish to caution you about making a decision exclusively off of rankings. They DO fluctuate from year to year (only two years ago MSU was 87, I think). You really should research both schools and make sure you will be happy at the one you choose, taking into account a host of factors. Just my $0.02. But in any case, Wm Mitchell sounds like it would be a good choice (were I in your shoes). Then again, I don't know much about Michigan State.

+1

What do you want to do with your law degree? I can tell you that the general consensus on TLS is that WM always does well despite its ranking. Even when it was T4 some years ago it was still well respected in MN.

[Go State]

I have no idea if this is a serious thread, but I'll bite. Figure out where you want to be when you graduate law school. You're not in the greatest of situations being at Cooley and presumably with not great grades if you are looking to transfer to these schools. I think at this point the best thing for you to do is to sit down and figure out specifically where you want to be when you graduate and what it is that you want to do. Even with great grades transferring from Cooley to a national school (i.e. t14) would be really difficult (like being the top student at Cooley style difficult). With okay grades it just won't happen. Neither MSU, WM, or any school that you are realistically going to be able to get into with just okay grades at Cooley, are going to give you national portability. E.g., if you want to be in California (in response to your example), then transfer to a school in California, even if it is a tier 3 or even a tier 4. Forget about the rankings, they are pretty much useless outside of the t14/18 schools since all law schools are regional after that. Try to go to a school that is regionally strong in the region that you want to practice in. Going to MSU because the UG institution is known nationally doesn't make a lot of sense because you won't find any MSU grads (that are practicing law) in places like California. The same is true with WM.

[You Gotta Have Faith]

the t14/18 schools

Going to USC?? What is up with that? T18?

[maciorar]

Since second semesters are coming to end, I am just curious as to how you were accepted to MSU and WM so quickly? Are you a part time student? Only reason I ask is that I am also considering a transfer to MSU once I wrap up this semester.

[Go State]

the t14/18 schools

Going to USC?? What is up with that? T18?

Meant t14 + 3 is t18 right? Haha. My brain is so fried right now... God I hate transnat and can't wait to be done with this final.

Lawgirl77, if you have any questions about MSU feel free to PM me (I went there last year).

[Duralex]

... you won't find any MSU grads (that are practicing law) in places like California. The same is true with WM.

Wrong. You will find MSU grads in Los Angeles and San Francisco. But the hiring preference there has more to do with fellow UG grads than the MSU law school (which doesn't enjoy a great reputation even among devoted Spartans, AFAIK.)

[Go State]

... you won't find any MSU grads (that are practicing law) in places like California. The same is true with WM.

Wrong. You will find MSU grads in Los Angeles and San Francisco. But the hiring preference there has more to do with fellow UG grads than the MSU law school (which doesn't enjoy a great reputation even among devoted Spartans, AFAIK.)

I'm not sure if you read the giant banner on the top of the screen, but this is a law school forum. We are all by default talking about law schools here (I couldn't even imagine how much wasted time/reading would be done here if people were to start writing shit like "University of California Berkeley Boalt Hall School of Law" as oppose to simply "Berkeley").

[Duralex]

No kidding? This is a law school forum? Holy shit, I thought it was for clown academy aspirants. Don't mind me, I'll show myself to the door.

You said that you won't find MSU grads practicing law in LA. As it happens, my old man went to MSU undergrad, UCLA law. Up until a year or so ago fully half of one of our Los Angeles area offices was made up of MSU grads--either UG or LS. All other credentials being equal, he will hire a Spartan UG alumnus over another candidate (and has, more than once) but from what I've seen the same doesn't hold true as reliably for the law school grads. All of which means that---wait for it---MSU Law grads are practicing in the SoCal market,.) And they do get some extra attention from MSU networks, but it isn't quite the same as for UG alumni.


Apologies for somehow offending you by offering what information I do have about this.

[apper123]

... you won't find any MSU grads (that are practicing law) in places like California. The same is true with WM.

Wrong. You will find MSU grads in Los Angeles and San Francisco. But the hiring preference there has more to do with fellow UG grads than the MSU law school (which doesn't enjoy a great reputation even among devoted Spartans, AFAIK.)

I'm not sure if you read the giant banner on the top of the screen, but this is a law school forum. We are all by default talking about law schools here (I couldn't even imagine how much wasted time/reading would be done here if people were to start writing shit like "University of California Berkeley Boalt Hall School of Law" as oppose to simply "Berkeley").

this post is really, really stupid

[Go State]

You said that you won't find MSU grads practicing law in LA. As it happens, my old man went to MSU undergrad, UCLA law. Up until a year or so ago fully half of one of our Los Angeles area offices was made up of MSU grads--either UG or LS. All other credentials being equal, he will hire a Spartan UG alumnus over another candidate (and has, more than once) but from what I've seen the same doesn't hold true as reliably for the law school grads. All of which means that---wait for it---MSU Law grads are practicing in the SoCal market,.) And they do get some extra attention from MSU networks, but it isn't quite the same as for UG alumni.

Wow, I didn't even catch that in your quote of my other post. I missed an "m" in my other post. What I meant was that "you won't find [m]any MSU [college of law] grads (that are practicing law) in places like California," which is true.

Also, I'm not completely clear as to why the fact that MSU UG grads that went to law school elsewhere and then are practicing law in LA or SF is really relevant to whether the OP should transfer to MSU law (even you admit that your dad doesn't have much of a preference for selecting solely MSU law grads over other candidates).

[Duralex]

Yeah, I agree with that--the MSU Law contingent out here is going to be much smaller than the general Spartan population, and while that wider network might be of some limited mileage if transferring to MSU Law I wouldn't expect anything very dramatic. So probably it should not be a weighty factor in making the decision. On the other hand, WM has no name recognition or network out here at all, to my knowledge. (People would probably think you were talking about the College of William and Mary if you said "WM.") I don't really know how the education at the two schools stack up in comparison, so I can't offer much more than that. An MSU Law connection might afford an occasional opportunity out here (either through another law grad or a friendly UG Spartan attorney), but nothing to hang your hat on. At the same time, it couldn't hurt--all other things being equal.