Transfers: Where Should My Cutoff Be? Forum

[megaTTTron]

T12% @ a school ranked 30. No scholarship. I probably won't receive any money for my 1L performance. I have no regional preferences.

I have a federal judicial internship this summer and I want to clerk when I graduate.

If I get accepted to a t6 I'm going no questions asked (obviously). My concern is that I don't, and I then have to decide between staying or leaving for a school in-between.

Especially w/ respect to a school like Gtown, where almost everything I hear is negative (diploma mill, OCI slaughter, etc) yet it is still a t14.


What does everyone else think? Thanks.

EDIT: I'm not UCLA trolling, but I am equally as interested in it as I am Gtown and Cornell.

[stinger35]

In terms of percentage, 40% of GULC grads go biglaw and I wouldn't underestimate the lay prestige, seriously. That being said, if clerking is your number one goal, you probably don't benefit that much from going to GULC.

[UCLAtransfer]

I think going to any T6 you get into is definitely TCR.

BMVP is still worth it I would think. Since you are interested in trying to clerk, I say the increased chances out of these schools still make it worth it.

Beyond that, I think the returns start to diminish. The only exception would be if any of the other schools you mentioned (Cornell/Gtown/UCLA) are in the geographic area that you want to practice. (I personally saw OCI hiring get way more regional this year than I think it has been in the past, even for schools that normally have more national reach.)

L. Rev. is something else to consider though. I don't know how it works at other schools, but at UCLA they didn't take many transfers from the transfer write-on at all, and this will be big for clerkships obviously.

[XxSpyKEx]

It sounds like you will be paying around the same amount of money either to remain at your current school or to transfer (and correct me if I am wrong on this, I am just inferring that from the fact that you have no scholly at your current school and won't get one based on 1L performance). If that is the case, then I don't really see why not to transfer into the t13. I mean you'll pay the same amount of money at either school but will end up with a better degree by transferring. Absent a guaranteed seat on law review at your current school, I don't see any good reason why not to transfer in your situation.

[A'nold]

Wait are you top 12%? Is that enough to transfer to those schools?

[megaTTTron]

Wait are you top 12%? Is that enough to transfer to those schools?

That's what I'm talking about. Obviously, if by some miracle I got into a t6 I'd go . Right now it's dependent upon my performance next semester. This is why the question is hard - if I was t5% the t6 would be in the picture, but because I'm hovering outside the t10% it's all up in the air, and I don't know if another t14 (even though it would be awesome to get in) is worth it. That's my question.

Thanks for the responses, UCLAtransfer is TCR I think. I appreciate the advice.

[megaTTTron]

It sounds like you will be paying around the same amount of money either to remain at your current school or to transfer (and correct me if I am wrong on this, I am just inferring that from the fact that you have no scholly at your current school and won't get one based on 1L performance). If that is the case, then I don't really see why not to transfer into the t13. I mean you'll pay the same amount of money at either school but will end up with a better degree by transferring. Absent a guaranteed seat on law review at your current school, I don't see any good reason why not to transfer in your situation.

Yea - there's not guarantee for LR, everyone has to write on (although I am fairly confident I can given our class size, and the usual write-on turn out).

The question is, is it better to be t12% and LR at t30 or no LR and t??% at a t14. I tend to agree with you though, although I am still undecided.

[Shot007]

I never quite understood why a school ranked as the 14th best law school in America is looked up so lowly as GULC... or is it just TLS?

[megaTTTron]

I never quite understood why a school ranked as the 14th best law school in America is looked up so lowly as GULC... or is it just TLS?

Me either, but everything I've read on here, and the consensus among my peers here at my school, is very negative. Take TLS with a grain of salt no doubt, but still it's a bit concerning. Even Cornell has TLSers who defend it. Not so much Gtown.

[solidsnake]

Wait are you top 12%? Is that enough to transfer to those schools?

While top12% is nothing to write home about, OP is at a tier one school. top 12% at tier one>>>>>>>>>anything other than number one student at a tier three or four school, because of OP's competition. The majority of people in tier three and four schools are busy just trying to keep themselves from drooling all over their bluebooks, let alone write any meaningful legal analysis.

[Bankhead]

Wait are you top 12%? Is that enough to transfer to those schools?

It's a little bit harder when you're at a Tier 1...

That being said, OP will probably be limited to the GULC/UCLA range if grades remain the same.

[seespotrun]

Wait are you top 12%? Is that enough to transfer to those schools?

While top12% is nothing to write home about, OP is at a tier one school. top 12% at tier one>>>>>>>>>anything other than number one student at a tier three or four school, because of OP's competition. The majority of people in tier three and four schools are busy just trying to keep themselves from drooling all over their bluebooks, let alone write any meaningful legal analysis.

Lol. Nawww.

[megaTTTron]

Wait are you top 12%? Is that enough to transfer to those schools?

It's a little bit harder when you're at a Tier 1...

That being said, OP will probably be limited to the GULC/UCLA range if grades remain the same.

Assuming this is true (and I think you're right) - you think it's worth it?

[XxSpyKEx]

Wait are you top 12%? Is that enough to transfer to those schools?

It's a little bit harder when you're at a Tier 1...

That being said, OP will probably be limited to the GULC/UCLA range if grades remain the same.

Assuming this is true (and I think you're right) - you think it's worth it?

It's not true! See my post below.

It sounds like you will be paying around the same amount of money either to remain at your current school or to transfer (and correct me if I am wrong on this, I am just inferring that from the fact that you have no scholly at your current school and won't get one based on 1L performance). If that is the case, then I don't really see why not to transfer into the t13. I mean you'll pay the same amount of money at either school but will end up with a better degree by transferring. Absent a guaranteed seat on law review at your current school, I don't see any good reason why not to transfer in your situation.

Yea - there's not guarantee for LR, everyone has to write on (although I am fairly confident I can given our class size, and the usual write-on turn out).

The question is, is it better to be t12% and LR at t30 or no LR and t??% at a t14. I tend to agree with you though, although I am still undecided.

Sure you probably won't make LR at the t13, but you will be able to get on some journal, and at the same cost as your current school it will be worth it to transfer (i.e. t13 + secondary journal > t30 + LR). FWIW, I recall someone on here that posted that they were at top 20% at IU and transferred into Columbia. So if by t30 you mean one of the better school in there (E.g. UIUC, IU, ND, Fordham, and not something like Alabama), then I think your odds will be decent of transferring into the t6 (assuming you stay close to top 10% at the end of the semester). I also recall that same person bitching about not getting an offer out of OCI, but your odds are still better of getting an offer by transferring because of the firms you'll get to OCI with, and at the same cost as your current school I don't see why not take it. I mean the only 2 real countervailing considerations I can think of against transferring is scholarship loss (the biggest one, but it doesn't apply to you), and loss of LR (which is mitigated by the fact that you will get onto some secondary journal at the t13).

[A'nold]

Wait are you top 12%? Is that enough to transfer to those schools?

While top12% is nothing to write home about, OP is at a tier one school. top 12% at tier one>>>>>>>>>anything other than number one student at a tier three or four school, because of OP's competition. The majority of people in tier three and four schools are busy just trying to keep themselves from drooling all over their bluebooks, let alone write any meaningful legal analysis.

ORLY? I think top 5% at a t3 is at least = to top 12% at a t1, unless you are talking about like Vandy or something. This is at least from what I've seen on the transferapps database. I guess it does depend on the t1 though.

Edit: and the t3 for that matter.

2nd Edit: and please don't anyone think I was putting OP down or anything, like saying ONLY top 12%. I was just commenting on what I've seen on the database. Top 12% is awesome!

[megaTTTron]

Wait are you top 12%? Is that enough to transfer to those schools?

While top12% is nothing to write home about, OP is at a tier one school. top 12% at tier one>>>>>>>>>anything other than number one student at a tier three or four school, because of OP's competition. The majority of people in tier three and four schools are busy just trying to keep themselves from drooling all over their bluebooks, let alone write any meaningful legal analysis.

ORLY? I think top 5% at a t3 is at least = to top 12% at a t1, unless you are talking about like Vandy or something. This is at least from what I've seen on the transferapps database. I guess it does depend on the t1 though.

Edit: and the t3 for that matter.

2nd Edit: and please don't anyone think I was putting OP down or anything, like saying ONLY top 12%. I was just commenting on what I've seen on the database. Top 12% is awesome!

A'nold - no offense taken! This discussion isn't about grades overall, it's about transferring and I appreciate your honest advice. I happen to disagree that t5% at a t3 = top 10-15% at a t1, if only based on how transfers here did last semester. But that isn't the point of the thread, lol.

[megaTTTron]

Wait are you top 12%? Is that enough to transfer to those schools?

It's a little bit harder when you're at a Tier 1...

That being said, OP will probably be limited to the GULC/UCLA range if grades remain the same.

Assuming this is true (and I think you're right) - you think it's worth it?

It's not true! See my post below.

It sounds like you will be paying around the same amount of money either to remain at your current school or to transfer (and correct me if I am wrong on this, I am just inferring that from the fact that you have no scholly at your current school and won't get one based on 1L performance). If that is the case, then I don't really see why not to transfer into the t13. I mean you'll pay the same amount of money at either school but will end up with a better degree by transferring. Absent a guaranteed seat on law review at your current school, I don't see any good reason why not to transfer in your situation.

Yea - there's not guarantee for LR, everyone has to write on (although I am fairly confident I can given our class size, and the usual write-on turn out).

The question is, is it better to be t12% and LR at t30 or no LR and t??% at a t14. I tend to agree with you though, although I am still undecided.

Sure you probably won't make LR at the t13, but you will be able to get on some journal, and at the same cost as your current school it will be worth it to transfer (i.e. t13 + secondary journal > t30 + LR). FWIW, I recall someone on here that posted that they were at top 20% at IU and transferred into Columbia. So if by t30 you mean one of the better school in there (E.g. UIUC, IU, ND, Fordham, and not something like Alabama), then I think your odds will be decent of transferring into the t6 (assuming you stay close to top 10% at the end of the semester). I also recall that same person bitching about not getting an offer out of OCI, but your odds are still better of getting an offer by transferring because of the firms you'll get to OCI with, and at the same cost as your current school I don't see why not take it. I mean the only 2 real countervailing considerations I can think of against transferring is scholarship loss (the biggest one, but it doesn't apply to you), and loss of LR (which is mitigated by the fact that you will get onto some secondary journal at the t13).

I started this thread based on stats from transferapps. While I agree that I think it's possible, and I'm most definitely applying (provided I keep my grades consistent), I know that it will be much harder with my rank. I really appreciate all the advice, especially w/ respect to the bolded portion above - which is exactly what I'm wrestling with at the moment. It's all wishful thinking of course.

[Bankhead]

While top 10-15% at a Tier 1 seems to have a good shot at anything thorugh the MVP range (and an outside chance at CCN -- I take back what I said about OP being limited to GULC-ish range), it seems like Tier 3 applicants even at the top 5% usually are limited to GULC. No higher than GULC.

This has been my observation. For example, there was a tier 3 transfer on the GULC EA thread who said he transferred into GULC with a 4.11. Presumably, he could get no higher.

While top 5% at a tier 3 is certainly admirable, presumably anyone in the top 20% at a mid-Tier 1 would be able to get this at a Tier 3, where the competition is much less. I don't think it's outlandish to assume that top 20% at a T25 = top 5% at a Tier 3.

[A'nold]

Wait are you top 12%? Is that enough to transfer to those schools?

While top12% is nothing to write home about, OP is at a tier one school. top 12% at tier one>>>>>>>>>anything other than number one student at a tier three or four school, because of OP's competition. The majority of people in tier three and four schools are busy just trying to keep themselves from drooling all over their bluebooks, let alone write any meaningful legal analysis.

ORLY? I think top 5% at a t3 is at least = to top 12% at a t1, unless you are talking about like Vandy or something. This is at least from what I've seen on the transferapps database. I guess it does depend on the t1 though.

Edit: and the t3 for that matter.

2nd Edit: and please don't anyone think I was putting OP down or anything, like saying ONLY top 12%. I was just commenting on what I've seen on the database. Top 12% is awesome!

A'nold - no offense taken! This discussion isn't about grades overall, it's about transferring and I appreciate your honest advice. I happen to disagree that t5% at a t3 = top 10-15% at a t1, if only based on how transfers here did last semester. But that isn't the point of the thread, lol.

Do you mind elaborating on this more? I can't tell if you think it is better or worse!

[XxSpyKEx]

While top 5% at a tier 3 is certainly admirable, presumably anyone in the top 20% at a mid-Tier 1 would be able to get this at a Tier 3, where the competition is much less. I don't think it's outlandish to assume that top 20% at a T25 = top 5% at a Tier 3.

I don't think it would be crazy to say that top 20% at a t25 is much better then top 5% at a t3 if you are looking at job prospects or transferring (e.g. that one dude got into Columbia with top 20% at a a t25, and top 5% at a t3 would have no chance at Columbia -- I've never even seen one person make the jump from t3-->Columbia (not to say it's not possible, I just haven't ever heard of it)).

Wait are you top 12%? Is that enough to transfer to those schools?

While top12% is nothing to write home about, OP is at a tier one school. top 12% at tier one>>>>>>>>>anything other than number one student at a tier three or four school, because of OP's competition. The majority of people in tier three and four schools are busy just trying to keep themselves from drooling all over their bluebooks, let alone write any meaningful legal analysis.

ORLY? I think top 5% at a t3 is at least = to top 12% at a t1, unless you are talking about like Vandy or something. This is at least from what I've seen on the transferapps database. I guess it does depend on the t1 though.

Edit: and the t3 for that matter.

2nd Edit: and please don't anyone think I was putting OP down or anything, like saying ONLY top 12%. I was just commenting on what I've seen on the database. Top 12% is awesome!

A'nold - no offense taken! This discussion isn't about grades overall, it's about transferring and I appreciate your honest advice. I happen to disagree that t5% at a t3 = top 10-15% at a t1, if only based on how transfers here did last semester. But that isn't the point of the thread, lol.

t12% at a t30 >>>>>>>>>>> t5% at a t3 in terms of transferring (and in most cases job prospects and everything else). Based on everything I saw last year on yahooapps it is incredibly difficult to transfer from a t3 --> t14 and near impossible to transfer from t4 --> t14. Whereas, transferring from t30 --> t14 is not that tough. Whether it's worth it to transfer is another question (one that this thread should be discussing). t5% at a t3 school gives you a shot at transferring into the t14, but it's still a crapshoot.

EDIT- Sorry A'nold. I'm not trying to rain on your parade, but you just have to be realistic about your transfer options. If you make it into a t14, then that's great, but I wouldn't take it as a sure thing at any t13s with being top 5% at a t3 (GULC RD might be realistic though because they have a huge transfer class).

[UCLAtransfer]

While top 10-15% at a Tier 1 seems to have a good shot at anything thorugh the MVP range (and an outside chance at CCN -- I take back what I said about OP being limited to GULC-ish range), it seems like Tier 3 applicants even at the top 5% usually are limited to GULC. No higher than GULC.

This has been my observation. For example, there was a tier 3 transfer on the GULC EA thread who said he transferred into GULC with a 4.11. Presumably, he could get no higher.

This is pretty consistent with what I have seen on here and on transferapps. At a t3 school the closer you get to top 3%, top 1%, the better chance you have at moving into the lower T14, but I would say T20 is a more realistic goal for top 5% from a t3.

While top 5% at a tier 3 is certainly admirable, presumably anyone in the top 20% at a mid-Tier 1 would be able to get this at a Tier 3, where the competition is much less. I don't think it's outlandish to assume that top 20% at a T25 = top 5% at a Tier 3.

I would have thought the same thing before transferring, but I actually found the competition to be much stiffer at the mid-t2 I was at before transferring. Part of this could be the 1L v. 2L thing (2L being easier/less of a curve), but overall I wouldn't say the competition or academic ability between my two schools was remarkably different.

[A'nold]

I don't think it would be crazy to say that top 20% at a t25 is much better then top 5% at a t3 if you are looking at job prospects or transferring (e.g. that one dude got into Columbia with top 20% at a a t25, and top 5% at a t3 would have no chance at Columbia -- I've never even seen one person make the jump from t3-->Columbia (not to say it's not possible, I just haven't ever heard of it)).

While top12% is nothing to write home about, OP is at a tier one school. top 12% at tier one>>>>>>>>>anything other than number one student at a tier three or four school, because of OP's competition. The majority of people in tier three and four schools are busy just trying to keep themselves from drooling all over their bluebooks, let alone write any meaningful legal analysis.

ORLY? I think top 5% at a t3 is at least = to top 12% at a t1, unless you are talking about like Vandy or something. This is at least from what I've seen on the transferapps database. I guess it does depend on the t1 though.

Edit: and the t3 for that matter.

2nd Edit: and please don't anyone think I was putting OP down or anything, like saying ONLY top 12%. I was just commenting on what I've seen on the database. Top 12% is awesome!

A'nold - no offense taken! This discussion isn't about grades overall, it's about transferring and I appreciate your honest advice. I happen to disagree that t5% at a t3 = top 10-15% at a t1, if only based on how transfers here did last semester. But that isn't the point of the thread, lol.

t12% at a t30 >>>>>>>>>>> t5% at a t3 in terms of transferring (and in most cases job prospects and everything else). Based on everything I saw last year on yahooapps it is incredibly difficult to transfer from a t3 --> t14 and near impossible to transfer from t4 --> t14. Whereas, transferring from t30 --> t14 is not that tough. Whether it's worth it to transfer is another question (one that this thread should be discussing). t5% at a t3 school gives you a shot at transferring into the t14, but it's still a crapshoot.

EDIT- Sorry A'nold. I'm not trying to rain on your parade, but you just have to be realistic about your transfer options. If you make it into a t14, then that's great, but I wouldn't take it as a sure thing at any t13s with being top 5% at a t3 (GULC RD might be realistic though because they have a huge transfer class).

I think you guys might have misunderstood what I was trying to say (I probably said it in a not very clear way). I'm totally with you guys on this and I was actually just talking with some people in the GULC EA thread saying that I would be lucky to get into any t14. I was just saying that I didn't think top 12% would get megaTTTron into the t6 but he still has a chance. I was also kind of saying that I thought top 5% at a t3 was close to top 12% at a t30 depending on what t3 and t30 we were talking about for transfer purposes, but I was obviously wrong about that.

[ToTransferOrNot]

If you get in to a T13, take it and run.

For what its worth, Georgetown gets so much hate, particularly in the transfer student context, because the transfer class is *massive*--so large that it dillutes any benefit you may receive from actually transferring. Particularly from a T30--GULC is worth it for T2 folks, not T30s.

[Bankhead]

If you get in to a T13, take it and run.

For what its worth, Georgetown gets so much hate, particularly in the transfer student context, because the transfer class is *massive*--so large that it dillutes any benefit you may receive from actually transferring. Particularly from a T30--GULC is worth it for T2 folks, not T30s.

What if your top 30 has basically equivalent (or worse) placement to that of a Tier 2?

[apper123]

How do we feel about the reach of T5% at a mid-T2? What about 10%? 15%?