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What do people think about transferring from a T30 (fordham) to a T14 (columbia/NYU) considering that I'll lose my GPA in the process and probably law review? Especially since being in top 10% at T30 I'll likely have very similar BigLaw opportunities as a transfer into a T14 school for OCI. Thoughts?

thanks for taking the poll but i would love to hear everyone's actual input...thanks!

Can't firms see your 1L GPA from your old school at OCI?

Helmholtz wrote:Can't firms see your 1L GPA from your old school at OCI?

...and can't you still apply to LR at many T14 schools? I could be wrong, but I have heard a lot of schools say they wanted to take relieve students of their reluctance to transfer for logistical reasons. IO don't know if it's T14 schools or not.

I don't know.....I voted for Fordham but I'm honestly about 50/50 on this one. If you want to play it safe you can't really go wrong with top 10% and LR at Fordham but an NYU/CLS degree would be sweet. Sorry for this unhelpful post.

It could go either way honestly since its fordham and nyu/columbia.

I would go with nyu/def columbia but thats probably just because of my own prestige whoredom

If there isn't any scholarship money in play, I'd say transfer. The school's name is going to stick with you longer than that GPA. You've already proven you have what it takes to be a top notch law student. I doubt it is that much harder to be to 10% at Fordham than it is at NYU/Columbia (0L talking, though). Both have excellent people at the top of their classes.

Helmholtz wrote:Can't firms see your 1L GPA from your old school at OCI?

they can but you are now competing with columbia/nyu students and they know you went to fordham which has "less" competition. also, s/o else asked if you can still compete for LR. Columbia's this year is at the same time as Fordham finals. NYU's is in the fall but very few spots are awarded. So it's a definite LR vs. trying out for a long shot.

I guess I want to know if my OCI prospects would be better or worse. Also, in the long run is it worth it to have the "better" degree even w/o LR and high GPA?

jks289 wrote:If there isn't any scholarship money in play, I'd say transfer. The school's name is going to stick with you longer than that GPA. You've already proven you have what it takes to be a top notch law student. I doubt it is that much harder to be to 10% at Fordham than it is at NYU/Columbia (0L talking, though). Both have excellent people at the top of their classes.

Fordham gives a whopping 5K to their top 15 (not 15%) students not to transfer. Pretty ridic.

And what if you're in the top 5% or higher....is better to stay to keep the stellar GPA?

Note: I realize with all of this that I have another semester to go.

jks289 wrote:If there isn't any scholarship money in play, I'd say transfer. The school's name is going to stick with you longer than that GPA. You've already proven you have what it takes to be a top notch law student. I doubt it is that much harder to be to 10% at Fordham than it is at NYU/Columbia (0L talking, though). Both have excellent people at the top of their classes.

True, but his first job is going to stick with him longer than his school's name. If he transfers to NYU/Columbia and misses the BigLaw boat because he is a random transfer student in a big pond of BigLaw hopefuls, he might miss out on the BigLaw track entirely. For whatever reason, it's a hard position to land once you've missed out your initial opportunity.

I think this is a really tough decision. It depends on your career aspirations, really, and how risk-averse you are. Top 10% + LR at Fordham is pretty much a lock for a nice firm job. It's hard to say how transfer students do in OCI, but I would guess that it's less than a lock. Of course, this is assuming you keep up your grades at Fordham. Logically, there should be no difference in hiring since you're the same student, but there have been some transfer horror stories.

very interesting...i'm thinking that it should be a bump for employers b/c i'm the same student but now with a better diploma. these firms hire more students from columbia/nyu then fordham so hypothetically it should be easier. it's really hard to get hard info on this.

You need to find out two things. First, what are the employment prospects like for people on law review at Fordham? Second, how well do transfers tend to do at their new schools? I imagine that if you're capable of getting top 10% at Fordham you can certainly get top half at Columbia, and probably top third, but I really don't know.

Tough call. But either way, you have two great options. Congrats.

I tend to vote for Fordham in this situation. I don't think your job prospects will improve substantially (if at all) by transferring.

mistergoft wrote:I tend to vote for Fordham in this situation. I don't think your job prospects will improve substantially (if at all) by transferring.

Probably, but I tend to think that access to Columbia/NYU alumni networks will create possibilities that just won't be available to a Fordham grad. It may not drastically alter whether OP gets a biglaw job, but it very well may create more options in general.

macattaq wrote:

mistergoft wrote:I tend to vote for Fordham in this situation. I don't think your job prospects will improve substantially (if at all) by transferring.

Probably, but I tend to think that access to Columbia/NYU alumni networks will create possibilities that just won't be available to a Fordham grad. It may not drastically alter whether OP gets a biglaw job, but it very well may create more options in general.

Yeah bro but the way I see it, there is almost no way he'll strike out at OCI from Fordham, but I've heard that transfers to CCN struck out this year.

Something to think about. Also, I think access to alumni networks might be subordinated to having a great gpa on your resume from a good school.

I'd have to imagine he'd be interviewing with many of the same employers at CN as he would at Fordham... why would there be any difference?

The only thing I can think of is they have strict quotas for # of students from each school, I guess?

mistergoft wrote:

macattaq wrote:

mistergoft wrote:I tend to vote for Fordham in this situation. I don't think your job prospects will improve substantially (if at all) by transferring.

Probably, but I tend to think that access to Columbia/NYU alumni networks will create possibilities that just won't be available to a Fordham grad. It may not drastically alter whether OP gets a biglaw job, but it very well may create more options in general.

Yeah bro but the way I see it, there is almost no way he'll strike out at OCI from Fordham, but I've heard that transfers to CCN struck out this year.

Something to think about. Also, I think access to alumni networks might be subordinated to having a great gpa on your resume from a good school.

This is the sort of data you need to try to gather, OP, as a PP said. How did T10%/LR students do at fall OCI this year at your school? Are there other transfers who struck out at CLS/NYU OCI in '09? Are there others that did quite well? I don't see how having T10%/LR from Fordham on your resume is substantially less helpful to your career than having, say, T30% from CLS/NYU. But, I very well could be underestimating the degree of prestige-whoredom in NYC BL.

sanpiero wrote:I don't see how having T10%/LR from Fordham on your resume is substantially less helpful to your career than having, say, T30% from CLS/NYU.

But he has the former, and the latter is somewhat of a crapshoot in terms of estimating.

mistergoft wrote:

sanpiero wrote:I don't see how having T10%/LR from Fordham on your resume is substantially less helpful to your career than having, say, T30% from CLS/NYU.

But he has the former, and the latter is somewhat of a crapshoot in terms of estimating.

I think we agree. What I was saying is that the T30% estimate is likely a best case scenario, so I'd recommend remaining at Fordham.

I think you're fine either way. You'll be doing OCI this summer. If you stay at Fordham, you'll have top 10% + law review, which gives you substantially the same opportunities as CN. If you transfer, they'll see that you were top 10% at Fordham, and that will still be impressive, regardless of whether or not you make law review at CN.

A couple of things to keep in mind.
-At Columbia, there are 40 law review slots each year. Only 10 of these are open to transfers (the write on slots) - they do not consider transfers' grades. So if you want to get on law review, you'll have to get one of the top 10 writing competition scores (competing with most of the 1L class plus 40 transfers). I don't like those odds.

-If you want to work outside of NYC, transfer. All the NYC firms know fordham, and most of them come to fordham OCI. Not all firms in other markets hold fordham in high regard, and they certainly come to Fordham OCI in smaller numbers.

Find out specifically how NYU/CLS will treat you at OCI. If they will let you bid with everyone else, I think the advantages outweigh the disadvantages. If there is any-however slight-handicap as to how you'll participate in early interviews at the new school, I think this alone might keep me from transferring.

imchuckbass58 wrote:-If you want to work outside of NYC, transfer. All the NYC firms know fordham, and most of them come to fordham OCI. Not all firms in other markets hold fordham in high regard, and they certainly come to Fordham OCI in smaller numbers.

This advice is credited. I assumed OP wanted to work in NYC based on attending Fordham, though.

ZXCVBNM, were you done with your brief when you started this thread? If so, I hate you so much.

You've obviously had a kick ass first semester. I can't go posting up my GPA, for rather obvious reasons. It's bad enough that I told one person in my section.

I do think you'll have wonderful options if you stay. You know how much I love our school. I also have the most tremendous regard for both Columbia and NYU. I don't think you need to leave to get a kick ass job, but you need to do what will make you happy. I've heard of transfer students striking out at OCI, but I've also heard of them doing remarkably well. The people I know on law review at our school are set, so yeah, back to the personal happiness thing.