Most rejections without an offer Forum

[Anonymous User]

While I realize the employment forum is serious stuff, I thought a little kvetching competition for us without offers might add a little levity to the crushing debt and bleak prospects.

I counted all my OCI interviews, as well as all my resume drops. It adds up to 78, 1 call back, 0 offers. If that's not a whole lot of fail, I don't know what is. But I suspect I fail at even being the biggest fail. Who's better?



FWIW, median at t-14.

[Anonymous User]

16 OCI interviews, 50 resumes sent out, 2 interviews, no offers.

Tier 3, top 1%, transfer to MVP

[Anonymous User]

23 OCI interviews

~500 direct sends to every firm in Chicago above 50 attorneys (including all the non-NALP firms)

-Applied to every NALP firm in Wisconsin, Indiana, and other surrounding locations to Chicago.
----Got a total of 3 screening interviews from this.

-Applied to virtually every federal gvt agency.

Total of 0 callbacks, and was rejected from every single firm I applied to and many government agencies (most haven't started started their interview process yet, but I'm pretty confident I'll at best see rejection letters, at worst get no responses because they don't have the time to reply to their flood of letters).

After being rejected to most/all of the firms above, I sent out letters indicating I would be willing to volunteer at just about all the NALP firms (for no pay) I initially applied and got nothing but rejection letters from the same firms.

Top 2% at a t3 (all kind of awards-- such as highest grade in LRW both terms (as well as highest grade in other classes), best brief in school, etc.) and transferred to MVPB.

My plans
Crossing my fingers and hoping to just be able to volunteer for a solo or something like that when I graduate (I think the likelihood of finding paid legal work is going to be slim when I graduate based on these results), and just work full-time at a non-law job. Since there is probably no way I'll be able to repay my loans making $30K a year doing BS work such as data-entry I think I'll probably just bankrupt on my student loans and let them pull 10% through wage garnishments for the rest of my life.

[Anonymous User]

12 OCIs, no callbacks there. 120+ mail-campaign apps, 2 callbacks, both rejected. no offers currently. gonna start working out again so i can effectively ambulance-chase by the time i graduate.

FWIW: T14, median + .14

[09042014]

23 OCI interviews

~500 direct sends to every firm in Chicago above 50 attorneys (including all the non-NALP firms)

-Applied to every NALP firm in Wisconsin, Indiana, and other surrounding locations to Chicago.
----Got a total of 3 screening interviews from this.

-Applied to virtually every federal gvt agency.

Total of 0 callbacks, and was rejected from every single firm I applied to and many government agencies (most haven't started started their interview process yet, but I'm pretty confident I'll at best see rejection letters, at worst get no responses because they don't have the time to reply to their flood of letters).

After being rejected to most/all of the firms above, I sent out letters indicating I would be willing to volunteer at just about all the NALP firms (for no pay) I initially applied and got nothing but rejection letters from the same firms.

Top 2% at a t3 (all kind of awards-- such as highest grade in LRW both terms (as well as highest grade in other classes), best brief in school, etc.) and transferred to MVPB.

My plans
Crossing my fingers and hoping to just be able to volunteer for a solo or something like that when I graduate (I think the likelihood of finding paid legal work is going to be slim when I graduate based on these results), and just work full-time at a non-law job. Since there is probably no way I'll be able to repay my loans making $30K a year doing BS work such as data-entry I think I'll probably just bankrupt on my student loans and let them pull 10% through wage garnishments for the rest of my life.

Join the Army. You won't get JAG, but after 10 years they'll wipe your loans clean because of IBR.

Lt's make like 40K plus room and board extras. Plus people won't think you are a failure.

[Anonymous User]

23 OCI interviews

~500 direct sends to every firm in Chicago above 50 attorneys (including all the non-NALP firms)

-Applied to every NALP firm in Wisconsin, Indiana, and other surrounding locations to Chicago.
----Got a total of 3 screening interviews from this.

-Applied to virtually every federal gvt agency.

Total of 0 callbacks, and was rejected from every single firm I applied to and many government agencies (most haven't started started their interview process yet, but I'm pretty confident I'll at best see rejection letters, at worst get no responses because they don't have the time to reply to their flood of letters).

After being rejected to most/all of the firms above, I sent out letters indicating I would be willing to volunteer at just about all the NALP firms (for no pay) I initially applied and got nothing but rejection letters from the same firms.

Top 2% at a t3 (all kind of awards-- such as highest grade in LRW both terms (as well as highest grade in other classes), best brief in school, etc.) and transferred to MVPB.

My plans
Crossing my fingers and hoping to just be able to volunteer for a solo or something like that when I graduate (I think the likelihood of finding paid legal work is going to be slim when I graduate based on these results), and just work full-time at a non-law job. Since there is probably no way I'll be able to repay my loans making $30K a year doing BS work such as data-entry I think I'll probably just bankrupt on my student loans and let them pull 10% through wage garnishments for the rest of my life.

Join the Army. You won't get JAG, but after 10 years they'll wipe your loans clean because of IBR.

Lt's make like 40K plus room and board extras. Plus people won't think you are a failure.

This MVPB degree is really paying off in terms of the doors it opens up... Top 2% and the same job (if you cant call it that) as a high school grad.

[09042014]

We'll you'd be an officer so its a job someone with a University of Phoenix grad could have, technically. Still better than 15 dollar an hour doc review in Manhattan.

[edgarderby]

We'll you'd be an officer so its a job someone with a University of Phoenix grad could have, technically. Still better than 15 dollar an hour doc review in Manhattan.

And I thought I was here being over dramatic...

People always need lawyers, and lots of good ones. The median career salaries are still going to be strong, for most students (even if there is an overpopulation of lawyers, this is only when we factor in T3 and T4...I imagine it would change quite a bit if we only factored in the people that frequent TLS). It is a conservative profession. For most of us, our first 3-5 years of salary will likely look closer to $150,000 than to $500,000, but over a lifetime things tend to work themselves out.

Relative debt to lifetime earnings, I think someone would be hard pressed to go to a T1 law school and still do worse than the vast majority of people with only B.A. degrees.

In real life, the universities most people attend on TLS hold a lifetime of weight. One recession isn't going to destroy the reputation.

And if you only wanted to be a lawyer for the easy money, then this is probably a blessing in disguise, considering how often those types of people regret every minute of their "biglaw" experience.

[Oblomov]

And if you only wanted to be a lawyer for the easy money, then this is probably a blessing in disguise, considering how often those types of people regret every minute of their "biglaw" experience.

I see this comment all the time and think it one of the most foolish on this board, at least if we get rid of the easy part. There is nothing wrong with wanting to be a lawyer for the money. Frankly, I doubt that "that" type dislikes biglaw anymore than the "I want to be a lawyer!" type. You're called into the priesthood. You're lured into a job by a combination of the salary, benefits and nature of the work.

The idea of "wanting to be a lawyer" is kind of silly anyhow. The work that a an associate in a finance practice group does bears no resemblance to work done by a DA, which has little in common with the work done by IP or PI. They have the same degree, but they really don't do the same work any more than a taxi driver, a trucker and a race car driver do.

[edgarderby]

And if you only wanted to be a lawyer for the easy money, then this is probably a blessing in disguise, considering how often those types of people regret every minute of their "biglaw" experience.

I see this comment all the time and think it one of the most foolish on this board, at least if we get rid of the easy part. There is nothing wrong with wanting to be a lawyer for the money. Frankly, I doubt that "that" type dislikes biglaw anymore than the "I want to be a lawyer!" type. You're called into the priesthood. You're lured into a job by a combination of the salary, benefits and nature of the work.

I didn't say there was anything "wrong" with wanting to be a lawyer for money. And removing "easy" from the sentence changes it an awful lot.

Wouldn't you agree someone deterred from an entire career because of a few-year-long recession probably would have found another reason to be miserable and be forced to change careers at any other time some kind of challenge showed itself?

[Anonymous User]

ever considered going into solo practice?
i know nsol graduates pulling 80-90k their first year out on their own.

put on your big girl panties and suck it up.

[Oblomov]

I didn't say there was anything "wrong" with wanting to be a lawyer for money. And removing "easy" from the sentence changes it an awful lot.

If anyone thinks that biglaw is going to be easy, he's fooling himself.

Wouldn't you agree someone deterred from an entire career because of a few-year-long recession probably would have found another reason to be miserable and be forced to change careers at any other time some kind of challenge showed itself?

No. I don't think you see too much plans for career change for c/o 2010 that got deferred for a year. I don't think you'd see too much concern by the class of 2011 if offers were made at the same rate but they all said "but, uh, you'll have to wait a year." Don't get me wrong, people wouldn't be pleased to lose out on a year's income. The fear, rational or not, is that a few year long recession will permanently prevent them from practicing in any way that resembles the one they had intended on. Even if it were going to be possible to jump into big law five years hence, while a nicer thought, isn't particularly consoling. Most people don't stay in biglaw. It's a way to make a lot of money while getting great experience and networking. In other words, setting yourself up for a good career afterwords. Possibly one where having a family becomes more practical. People don't live forever; 5 years (if this were even possible) changes quite a bit.

[Oblomov]

ever considered going into solo practice?
i know nsol graduates pulling 80-90k their first year out on their own.

First year out on their own, or first year out of school? There is no way that a freshly minted JD is prepared for solo practice.

[BradyToMoss]

ever considered going into solo practice?
i know nsol graduates pulling 80-90k their first year out on their own.

First year out on their own, or first year out of school? There is no way that a freshly minted JD is prepared for solo practice.

Yeah I can't see too many people willing to hire a solo practitioner fresh out of law school. Maybe if you moved to a college town and had some start-up money you could advertise a bit, offer rates much lower than your competitors, and convince some of the poor kids with DUI/Possession of Class D that you can handle their case. But even that seems pretty unlikely to generate much business. In the end, it's going to be pretty impossible to get anyone that will let you represent them if you're a sole practitioner who has never been in court before.

[Interested Observer]

ever considered going into solo practice?
i know nsol graduates pulling 80-90k their first year out on their own.

First year out on their own, or first year out of school? There is no way that a freshly minted JD is prepared for solo practice.

Yeah I can't see too many people willing to hire a solo practitioner fresh out of law school. Maybe if you moved to a college town and had some start-up money you could advertise a bit, offer rates much lower than your competitors, and convince some of the poor kids with DUI/Possession of Class D that you can handle their case. But even that seems pretty unlikely to generate much business. In the end, it's going to be pretty impossible to get anyone that will let you represent them if you're a sole practitioner who has never been in court before.

This all kind of presumes that the purchasers of your legal services are somewhat sophisticated. The majority (?) of people out there aren't savvy when it comes to picking a lawyer and will assume that there aren't many differences between lawyers.

However, with that being said, the less sophisticated your client, it's likely the work you get will be less sophisticated. But, it may be just a way to develop your skills and develop a reputation before you can start handling larger matters.

Plus, you might have issues when it come to collecting your fee.

[XxSpyKEx]

ever considered going into solo practice?
i know nsol graduates pulling 80-90k their first year out on their own.

First year out on their own, or first year out of school? There is no way that a freshly minted JD is prepared for solo practice.

Yeah I can't see too many people willing to hire a solo practitioner fresh out of law school. Maybe if you moved to a college town and had some start-up money you could advertise a bit, offer rates much lower than your competitors, and convince some of the poor kids with DUI/Possession of Class D that you can handle their case. But even that seems pretty unlikely to generate much business. In the end, it's going to be pretty impossible to get anyone that will let you represent them if you're a sole practitioner who has never been in court before.

This all kind of presumes that the purchasers of your legal services are somewhat sophisticated. The majority (?) of people out there aren't savvy when it comes to picking a lawyer and will assume that there aren't many differences between lawyers.

However, with that being said, the less sophisticated your client, it's likely the work you get will be less sophisticated. But, it may be just a way to develop your skills and develop a reputation before you can start handling larger matters.

Plus, you might have issues when it come to collecting your fee.

freshly minted JD practicing solo = almost for sure a lawsuit for malpractice.