OCI/callbacks/etc Men's Clothing Mega-thread

[Veyron]

Alfani stuff is almost always at a deep discount and is generally pretty low quality (although I love their undershirts). That suit is definitely not ideal for OCI because you want a solid suit. In general, there's somewhat of a rule against suits that are textured and patterned. That suit is textured and has two patterns. I would skip it.

Meh, a darker textured charcoal grey would be fine IMHO. Many of the high quality ones are.

[Bronte]

Alfani stuff is almost always at a deep discount and is generally pretty low quality (although I love their undershirts). That suit is definitely not ideal for OCI because you want a solid suit. In general, there's somewhat of a rule against suits that are textured and patterned. That suit is textured and has two patterns. I would skip it.

Meh, a darker textured charcoal grey would be fine IMHO. Many of the high quality ones are.

I am planning to wear a dark charcoal textured BB to OCI, so I'm with you. All I'm saying is that if you're gonna break the rules, best to only break one, and carefully.

Edit: when I said "textured and patterned" I meant it literally, as in "both textured and patterned." I was referring to a general fashion rule, not an OCI rule. Should have been more clear.

[Veyron]

I am planning to wear a dark charcoal textured BB to OCI, so I'm with you. All I'm saying is that if you're gonna break the rules, best to only break one, and carefully.

True dat. I may rock an untextured navy w white rope stripe. You seem like you know your stuff, what say you?

[IrwinM.Fletcher]

Some of the statements in this thread are pretty over the top. Unless you work at W&C or do m&a work, spending more than a few hundred bucks on dress shoes is a pretty colossal waste of money. Ever. Most partners don't even go out and blow half a g on shoes.

[Bronte]

I am planning to wear a dark charcoal textured BB to OCI, so I'm with you. All I'm saying is that if you're gonna break the rules, best to only break one, and carefully.

True dat. I may rock an untextured navy w white rope stripe. You seem like you know your stuff, what say you?

Haha, most of what I've learned I've learned from the old suiting thread, what is now 90% of this thread. That and the subsequent purchasing experiences I've had and people I've talked to IRL. I'm really not a fashion guru, just a recent convert to trying to dress well.

With regard to the white rope stripes, I would (sorry) say no. In general, going with pinstripe instead of solid is a bigger breach of the rules than going with textured instead of untextured. If by "rope stripe" you mean something like this --LinkRemoved--, also sometimes called "chalk stripe," I think that's an even bigger breach than wearing pinstripes in general.

If you're gonna do pinstripes, which I think can be okay but is generally inadvisable, I would go with subtle pinstripes, like this: http://www.brooksbrothers.com/IWCatProd ... ctionsize=#.

[Bronte]

Some of the statements in this thread are pretty over the top. Unless you work at W&C or do m&a work, spending more than a few hundred bucks on dress shoes is a pretty colossal waste of money. Ever. Most partners don't even go out and blow half a g on shoes.

Most of the statements in this thread are about dressing conservatively for cheap. For example, I have recommended these shoes http://www.onlineshoes.com/mens-bostoni ... ck-p_id362 probably five times in this thread. And ties from http://www.thetiebar.com/, which are $15. My reference to the Aldens was just to make the guy feel good about spending $200 on a classic American shoe that will last 10 times longer than Bostonians and their peers.

[IrwinM.Fletcher]

Some of the statements in this thread are pretty over the top. Unless you work at W&C or do m&a work, spending more than a few hundred bucks on dress shoes is a pretty colossal waste of money. Ever. Most partners don't even go out and blow half a g on shoes.

Most of the statements in this thread are about dressing conservatively for cheap. For example, I have recommended these shoes http://www.onlineshoes.com/mens-bostoni ... ck-p_id362 probably five times in this thread. And ties from http://www.thetiebar.com/, which are $15. My reference to the Aldens was just to make the guy feel good about spending $200 on a classic American shoe that will last 10 times longer than Bostonians and their peers.

You'll forgive me for not noting that in the previous 100+ pages

I think it was your statement that AE's are on the low end that got me.

[Unitas]

I am planning to wear a dark charcoal textured BB to OCI, so I'm with you. All I'm saying is that if you're gonna break the rules, best to only break one, and carefully.

True dat. I may rock an untextured navy w white rope stripe. You seem like you know your stuff, what say you?

Haha, most of what I've learned I've learned from the old suiting thread, what is now 90% of this thread. That and the subsequent purchasing experiences I've had and people I've talked to IRL. I'm really not a fashion guru, just a recent convert to trying to dress well.

With regard to the white rope stripes, I would (sorry) say no. In general, going with pinstripe instead of solid is a bigger breach of the rules than going with textured instead of untextured. If by "rope stripe" you mean something like this --LinkRemoved--, also sometimes called "chalk stripe," I think that's an even bigger breach than wearing pinstripes in general.

If you're gonna do pinstripes, which I think can be okay but is generally inadvisable, I would go with subtle pinstripes, like this: http://www.brooksbrothers.com/IWCatProd ... ctionsize=#.

I have this suit. I have never felt odd wearing it and I'm almost certain the federal judge I work for has the same one. I, however, would not wear it for OCI. I do need to get it retailored though since I have lost more weight... Stupid weight.

[Veyron]

With regard to the white rope stripes, I would (sorry) say no. In general, going with pinstripe instead of solid is a bigger breach of the rules than going with textured instead of untextured. If by "rope stripe" you mean something like this --LinkRemoved--, also sometimes called "chalk stripe," I think that's an even bigger breach than wearing pinstripes in general.

Yes, it looks like that, only 1000 times less hidious (stripes are a very light blue and the suit is a lighter shade of navy, leading to less contrast and less prominence for the somewhat narrower stripes). Ok, I'll stick to the soild navy. Its just that I'm on my 3rd interview with this one firm and would hate to rock the same suit for the third damn time.

[ClarDarr]

At the risk of sound like an idiot, what makes a suit textured vs. not textured?

[Bronte]

You'll forgive me for not noting that in the previous 100+ pages

Well it was pre-merger, when this thread was shorter, but it's no problem. You're just one of many posters that's popped in to say how ludicrously expense the recommendations are, which I think is a complete mischaracterization. Sometimes, when posters want it to, the thread will delve into discussion of more expensive items. It's only natural. But the general thrust is cheap OCI garb.

I think it was your statement that AE's are on the low end that got me.

It's just a statement of fact. Leather shoes are legitimately expensive, unlike many other fashion items. That's why the middle range is about $250-350. Most quality laceups are $300+. It's just the way it is. About the cheapest you can get is $75 for a pair of laceup captoes, and they genuinely suck. (Don't get me wrong, I own a pair. You can see the glue. And the shiny leather cracks and is just generally unattractive, but it'll get the job done for OCI if you can't fork over the $200 for a pair of $325 AEs that never go on sale, anywhere, except twice a year at Nordstrom.)

The $600 Aldens that I linked to are actually worth the money IMO, although I don't have the money. They are handmade cordovan shoes. You won't find them on sale (well, maybe you will, but I never have). They will last a lifetime if properly cared for, and they're beautiful.

[Bronte]

At the risk of sound like an idiot, what makes a suit textured vs. not textured?

Textured, as I understand it, just means that the fabric has speckles of lighter coloring in it. A better term might be "heather," as texture implies a certain feel. It's very subtle, and is really not a big deal.

[shepdawg]

I am a really bad tie purchaser, because I always buy flashy ones. They are hard to match to stuff. I am browsing the http://www.thetiebar.com right now, and plan on purchasing about 4 ties to go along with a charcoal suit. 2 red ones, and 2 blue ones (possibly 4 ties that are red/blue).

Should I do solid ties, or some pattern like stripes or geometric?

http://www.thetiebar.com/order_page.asp ... ValueIds=1

[Veyron]

I am a really bad tie purchaser, because I always buy flashy ones. They are hard to match to stuff. I am browsing the http://www.thetiebar.com right now, and plan on purchasing about 4 ties to go along with a charcoal suit. 2 red ones, and 2 blue ones (possibly 4 ties that are red/blue).

Should I do solid ties, or some pattern like stripes or geometric?

http://www.thetiebar.com/order_page.asp ... ValueIds=1

Pin dot ties are what you should seek my little rabbit. Like so http://www.samhober.com/images/product/ ... 37_782.jpg

[Bronte]

I am a really bad tie purchaser, because I always buy flashy ones. They are hard to match to stuff. I am browsing the http://www.thetiebar.com right now, and plan on purchasing about 4 ties to go along with a charcoal suit. 2 red ones, and 2 blue ones (possibly 4 ties that are red/blue).

Should I do solid ties, or some pattern like stripes or geometric?

http://www.thetiebar.com/order_page.asp ... ValueIds=1

Pin dot ties are what you should seek my little rabbit.

"Houndstooth" or "puppytooth" or "sweettooth" is also a good pattern. http://www.creatingkeepsakesblog.com/fi ... .jpg?w=300. I would avoid solid ties. Generally, though, you have more leeway on the tie.

Edit: The following are probably all generally appropriate ties:

http://www.thetiebar.com/order_page.asp ... nValueIds=

http://www.thetiebar.com/order_page.asp ... nValueIds=

http://www.thetiebar.com/order_page.asp ... nValueIds=

http://www.thetiebar.com/order_page.asp ... nValueIds=

http://www.thetiebar.com/order_page.asp ... nValueIds=

http://www.thetiebar.com/order_page.asp ... nValueIds=

http://www.thetiebar.com/order_page.asp ... nValueIds=

http://www.thetiebar.com/order_page.asp ... nValueIds=

http://www.thetiebar.com/order_page.asp ... nValueIds=

http://www.thetiebar.com/order_page.asp ... nValueIds=

[BarbellDreams]

I found an Alfani suit for $90 in my size. Would it be suitable for OCI in So Cal? If not, would it be acceptable during 2L SA in So Cal?

Snapped a pic with my phone, but flash came on. It looked much darker in the store.
--ImageRemoved--

With flash again
--ImageRemoved--

Without flash, looks darker
--ImageRemoved--

Put DOWN the suit! Walk away slowly. Navy blue solid, charcoal grey soild. End of story.

Besides Alfani is SPS, they only last about a year.

1. I have a black Alfani suit that is likely my favorite suit and has lasted way over a year.

2. A partner at a V100 that I know he actually recommends light gray suits for OCI. Said lighter suits tend to not look as aggressive and thus make the candidate look friendlier. This is all obviously his opinion and hundreds of interviewers can hate light gray suits for all I know, but it goes to show that a plain statement such as "Solid Navy or Charcoal" isn't really accurate.

[Veyron]

I found an Alfani suit for $90 in my size. Would it be suitable for OCI in So Cal? If not, would it be acceptable during 2L SA in So Cal?

Snapped a pic with my phone, but flash came on. It looked much darker in the store.
--ImageRemoved--

With flash again
--ImageRemoved--

Without flash, looks darker
--ImageRemoved--

Put DOWN the suit! Walk away slowly. Navy blue solid, charcoal grey soild. End of story.

Besides Alfani is SPS, they only last about a year.

1. I have a black Alfani suit that is likely my favorite suit and has lasted way over a year.

2. A partner at a V100 that I know he actually recommends light gray suits for OCI. Said lighter suits tend to not look as aggressive and thus make the candidate look friendlier. This is all obviously his opinion and hundreds of interviewers can hate light gray suits for all I know, but it goes to show that a plain statement such as "Solid Navy or Charcoal" isn't really accurate.

I stopped reading after hearing that your favorite suit is both (a) An Alfani and (b) black. Inexcusable.

[Helmholtz]

No matter how poor you happen to be, there is never an excuse to buy an Alfani suit. Also, the suit above is a complete trainwreck. The correlation between fashion choice and OCI success may be overstated in this thread, but I would have already made up my mind on no-offer if somebody walked into an interview with that suit.

[Bronte]

2. A partner at a V100 that I know he actually recommends light gray suits for OCI. Said lighter suits tend to not look as aggressive and thus make the candidate look friendlier. This is all obviously his opinion and hundreds of interviewers can hate light gray suits for all I know, but it goes to show that a plain statement such as "Solid Navy or Charcoal" isn't really accurate.

First, there's a big difference between a light gray suit and a light gray suit with multiple size and color pinstripes. A big, noticeable difference. Second, there's really not debate at this point that solid charcoal and navy are the credited response for interviews. You'll see numerous posters saying that in this thread, and you'll see it in interview fashion advice anywhere else. E.g., http://jobsearch.about.com/od/interview ... wdress.htm, http://www.career.vt.edu/interviewing/I ... rance.html, --LinkRemoved--.

I'm not saying you can't get away with a light gray (patternless) suit. I really think you can. However, if I were buying a suit for interviews, I would recommend a navy or charcoal suit. That advice is very uncontroversial.

[BarbellDreams]

I found an Alfani suit for $90 in my size. Would it be suitable for OCI in So Cal? If not, would it be acceptable during 2L SA in So Cal?

Snapped a pic with my phone, but flash came on. It looked much darker in the store.
--ImageRemoved--

With flash again
--ImageRemoved--

Without flash, looks darker
--ImageRemoved--

Put DOWN the suit! Walk away slowly. Navy blue solid, charcoal grey soild. End of story.

Besides Alfani is SPS, they only last about a year.

1. I have a black Alfani suit that is likely my favorite suit and has lasted way over a year.

2. A partner at a V100 that I know he actually recommends light gray suits for OCI. Said lighter suits tend to not look as aggressive and thus make the candidate look friendlier. This is all obviously his opinion and hundreds of interviewers can hate light gray suits for all I know, but it goes to show that a plain statement such as "Solid Navy or Charcoal" isn't really accurate.

I stopped reading after hearing that your favorite suit is both (a) An Alfani and (b) black. Inexcusable.

Sorry, I'll try to calibrate my suit preferences to yours. For the record, the firm that offered me my SA didn't seem to mind the suit.

[Veyron]

[/quote]Sorry, I'll try to calibrate my suit preferences to yours. For the record, the firm that offered me my SA didn't seem to mind the suit.[/quote]

Yes, that would be wise. Its not like an "incorrect" suit is going to kill an otherwise promising candidate. Doesn't mean that you should wear a black suit to a job interview.

[BarbellDreams]

2. A partner at a V100 that I know he actually recommends light gray suits for OCI. Said lighter suits tend to not look as aggressive and thus make the candidate look friendlier. This is all obviously his opinion and hundreds of interviewers can hate light gray suits for all I know, but it goes to show that a plain statement such as "Solid Navy or Charcoal" isn't really accurate.

First, there's a big difference between a light gray suit and a light gray suit with multiple size and color pinstripes. A big, noticeable difference. Second, there's really not debate at this point that solid charcoal and navy are the credited response for interviews. You'll see numerous posters saying that in this thread, and you'll see it in interview fashion advice anywhere else. E.g., http://jobsearch.about.com/od/interview ... wdress.htm, http://www.career.vt.edu/interviewing/I ... rance.html, --LinkRemoved--.

I'm not saying you can't get away with a light gray (patternless) suit. I really think you can. However, if I were buying a suit for interviews, I would recommend a navy or charcoal suit. That advice is very uncontroversial.

I agree that the suit shown in the picture has some funky pinstripes that would definitely have me stay away (unless its the camera obviously). With that said I think people over analyze suits. If it looks professional you are most likely fine. The majority of males in my class wore solid black or very dark charcoal suits to interviews and were fine. I actually dont know of a single friend who even owns a navy suit, let alone wore it to an interview.

[Bronte]

Sorry, I'll try to calibrate my suit preferences to yours. For the record, the firm that offered me my SA didn't seem to mind the suit.

I should just post the first post I made in the original OCI attire thread that said "posters will come out of the woodwork arguing their various deviations from these rules" as an I told you so. I guess I kinda just did.

No one is disputing that you can get an offer wearing a black Alfani suit to OCI. I really don't think anyone is. Assuming your attire is within the broad range of terrible shit that people wear on a daily basis, you're attire probably counts for about 5% or less of your interview chances.

However, the fact that you or others got an offer wearing XYZ deviation to interviews does not mean that this choice of attire maximizes your chances of success. There's really three distinct issues that get batted around in this thread: (1) what is appropriate legal office wear outside of interviews, (2) what can I get away with that I already own, and (3) what should I purchase if I'm looking to maximize my chances in interviews. Unless otherwise stated, posts refer to the latter.

[Bronte]

I actually dont know of a single friend who even owns a navy suit, let alone wore it to an interview.

Are you sure? Most "navy" suits are midnight navy, and look fairly close to black. However, the overall look is softer. Again, this thread is about the a relatively small portion of interview success and it is unless otherwise stated about purchases for OCI, not what you can get away with. When posters say they have XYZ suit and can they get away with it, the responses are generally more forgiving.

As to most people overanalyzing suits, there's people who care about attire, and there's people who don't. Women generally do. And probably about 25% of men who work in big law do (and yeah, 78.3% of statistics are made up on the spot). If you're making a first purchase, why take the chance that your interviewer will care?

[Helmholtz]

tbf, law students going into interviews dressing like they're attending a funeral is probably appropriate considering the current legal market.