OCI/callbacks/etc Men's Clothing Mega-thread Forum

[Shammis]

The most important thing really is the fit, as a lot of people have already talked about. Make sure you take it to a tailor who really knows his/her stuff. Different body types need different cuts to make a suit look great. Height, Weight, Shoulders...all play roles in how a suit should fit. Dont forget to get your shirt tailored too though. Too many people wear shirts that just dont fit right...these end up making the whole suit look sloppy. i.e. make sure the cuff is the right length in proportion to your arm and suit. General rule of thum is 1/4 inch of cuff should show from underneath your Jacket. I also do not recommend going to TJ Max/target/etc for dress clothes. The quality is crap and it will show. Nordstrom Rack is a great place though. On a note about shoes...No clunky square toes...and no soles that are really thick. You look like a clown with these shoes. My 2 cents...Pick up the GQ guide to dressing (or is it esquire?) whatever it is...read it.

[Pufer]

Would a Full-Windsor be acceptable for someone with a larger neckline? I have ~20 inch neckline and Half-Windsors just look tiny and not very becoming on me.

As someone above said, it depends on how it looks with your face. If it draws attention to the fact that you have a 20 inch neck, I'd avoid it.

Can anyone comment on a wool vs. superfine wool suit?

The terms mean different things to different suit companies - there's no uniform definition of either term. In a single suit line (or series of suit lines, as you'd find at JAB), it's simply a way to distinguish levels of wool quality from the other one's in the store. In non-homogeneous stores (department stores, MW), it is generally synonymous with how expensive the wool is, not necessarily anything to do with the wool itself .

Two button suits are back in style. I don't think a three button suit (especially for a tall guy) are ever out of style. Yes, top two buttons are fine (or middle only), but never button all three.

That three button suits have been in style the last decade or so is the exception, not the rule. A two button suit is never out of style; three-button comes and goes.

Now that they're falling back out of style, if you're going with a three button suit - because you're tall or otherwise - it should not look like a three button suit (think a third button that you never button and is folded over at the bottom of your lapel.

The high-V of five years ago that was stylish and more attainable with extra buttons was a fad. Under that fad, you didn't want to ever show too much shirt, which meant tall guys definitely needed at least three buttons. Be wary of articles and posts giving advice to tall people during the time of that fad. We're back to tradition now.

Some tall guy examples:

6-11 Dwight Howard wearing a summery two-button sport coat (I imagine he has a 20 inch neck, but he isn't wearing no spread-collar full-windsor nonsense, although the spread is probably a bit narrow):



6-6 Kobe in a slim cut suit with ridiculous peaked lapels, but two-button (also, nice collar width on him, but that skinny tie isn't thick enough to pull off that four-in-hand, so he should've gone with the half-windsor with that tie; a four-in-hand with a thicker tie would look great with his face).



6-8 Melo wearing something that, if it didn't have the extra pocket, has the makings of a pretty decent two-buton interview suit (note, however, that he is rocking the full windsor and spread collar, and it dwarfs his face):



7-0 Andrew Bogut, on the other hand, looks like a dork in his three-button number, which really has nothing wrong with it other than it's a three-button suit that accords with the style of around 5 years ago (it accentuates the length between his arms and his waist, making him appear even more gangly than the gangly white guy he already is):




To sum up the photographic evidence, there's absolutely no reason why a tall guy can't go with a two-button suit. Further, if you're a tall guy going with a three-button suit of the prevailing style these last few years, you risk looking like Andrew Bogut, which isn't particularly offensive, it's just not particularly dapper. Better to go with the two, and you'll never risk going against the winds of fashion.

-Pufer

[leobowski]

One of Kobe's suits has been on ebay for a while. It's a Golden Fleece in some kind of ridiculous size like 55XXL.

[smittytron3k]

That's surprising...I am taller than Kobe and wear a 42XL. I'm surprised the guy's frame is that much broader than mine given that he's reasonably thin.

[Anonymous User]

Any recommendations about where to get nice shoes for <$150. Is that possible? I know almost nothing about shoes...how does one even go about differentiating which shoes are nice and which are not?

[Anonymous User]

Any recommendations about where to get nice shoes for <$150. Is that possible? I know almost nothing about shoes...how does one even go about differentiating which shoes are nice and which are not?

Dude, of course its possible to get good shoes for under 150.

[leobowski]

Any recommendations about where to get nice shoes for <$150. Is that possible? I know almost nothing about shoes...how does one even go about differentiating which shoes are nice and which are not?

Johnston & Murphy Meltons are the best around that price point. They are about $160, and if you look around you can find a shoebuy.com coupon. The only other shoes I can think of with leather soles at that price are Bostonians made with really crappy leather. If you feel like spending more, start looking at J&M's Aristocraft line or Allen Edmonds Park Avenue. But don't stray outside the realm of black cap-toes if this is your first dress shoe purchase. A lot of shoe salesmen are big on wingtips but those are not appropriate interview attire.

When you have some more dough, I would recommend a pair of brown cap-toes, preferably oxblood or darker. Then later you can start looking at monkstraps, loafers, and cowboy boots (if you live in the right region). I personally wouldn't be caught dead in a pair of wingtips or square-toed shoes, but that's just me.

edit: why are the two above posts anon? seriously?

[Bronte]

Any recommendations about where to get nice shoes for <$150. Is that possible? I know almost nothing about shoes...how does one even go about differentiating which shoes are nice and which are not?

Johnston & Murphy Meltons are the best around that price point. They are about $160, and if you look around you can find a shoebuy.com coupon. The only other shoes I can think of with leather soles at that price are Bostonians made with really crappy leather. If you feel like spending more, start looking at J&M's Aristocraft line or Allen Edmonds Park Avenue. But don't stray outside the realm of black cap-toes if this is your first dress shoe purchase. A lot of shoe salesmen are big on wingtips but those are not appropriate interview attire.

When you have some more dough, I would recommend a pair of brown cap-toes, preferably oxblood or darker. Then later you can start looking at monkstraps, loafers, and cowboy boots (if you live in the right region). I personally wouldn't be caught dead in a pair of wingtips or square-toed shoes, but that's just me.

edit: why are the two above posts anon? seriously?

Probably because for some ungodly reason the anonymous button is to the right of the normal button. Anyway, a pair of Akron Bostonians, black cap toes, will run you about $70 bucks. They're really crappy on every level, but they're interview appropriate. You could also look at Bass black cap toes, which are a little better constructed I think, but are not leather soled. I really don't think leather soles are a big deal interview wise, but others do.

[dakatz]

Any recommendations about where to get nice shoes for <$150. Is that possible? I know almost nothing about shoes...how does one even go about differentiating which shoes are nice and which are not?

Johnston & Murphy Meltons are the best around that price point. They are about $160, and if you look around you can find a shoebuy.com coupon. The only other shoes I can think of with leather soles at that price are Bostonians made with really crappy leather. If you feel like spending more, start looking at J&M's Aristocraft line or Allen Edmonds Park Avenue. But don't stray outside the realm of black cap-toes if this is your first dress shoe purchase. A lot of shoe salesmen are big on wingtips but those are not appropriate interview attire.

When you have some more dough, I would recommend a pair of brown cap-toes, preferably oxblood or darker. Then later you can start looking at monkstraps, loafers, and cowboy boots (if you live in the right region). I personally wouldn't be caught dead in a pair of wingtips or square-toed shoes, but that's just me.

edit: why are the two above posts anon? seriously?

Probably because for some ungodly reason the anonymous button is to the right of the normal button. Anyway, a pair of Akron Bostonians, black cap toes, will run you about $70 bucks. They're really crappy on every level, but they're interview appropriate. You could also look at Bass black cap toes, which are a little better constructed I think, but are not leather soled. I really don't think leather soles are a big deal interview wise, but others do.

You don't think the material of your shoe sole is a big deal interview wise? Hmm, thats quite the eye-opening revelation. Wouldn't have guessed it. I hear they put cameras into the ground so they can monitor the material of your sole under the table. They then make 2 lists of candidates, based on shoe-sole material. Then they laugh at all those with leather soles.

Ok ok, all joking aside, you guys are overthinking this just as much as your are overthinking pretty much every other article of clothing thats been discussed in this thread. Take a look at the recruiter taking Q's thread. He got a kick out of the neurotics in this one, and said that we were overthinking it. He said that, as long as it is neat and fits well, you are fine. I'm not saying that one shouldn't invest in a well-made and durable pair of shoes. I'm just saying that certain details don't matter for purposes of OCI interviews.

[Bronte]

You don't think the material of your shoe sole is a big deal interview wise? Hmm, thats quite the eye-opening revelation. Wouldn't have guessed it. I hear they put cameras into the ground so they can monitor the material of your sole under the table. They then make 2 lists of candidates, based on shoe-sole material. Then they laugh at all those with leather soles.

Ok ok, all joking aside, you guys are overthinking this just as much as your are overthinking pretty much every other article of clothing thats been discussed in this thread. Take a look at the recruiter taking Q's thread. He got a kick out of the neurotics in this one, and said that we were overthinking it. He said that, as long as it is neat and fits well, you are fine. I'm not saying that one shouldn't invest in a well-made and durable pair of shoes. I'm just saying that certain details don't matter for purposes of OCI interviews.

Uh huh. I'm recommending pretty much the cheapest, simplest shoe on the market. All of my advice in this thread has been shorter than your post. Doesn't seem that neurotic to me.

[beachbum]

What are the feelings on ties? Stick to red and blue? And where can I get some quality ties without breaking the bank?

[Bronte]

What are the feelings on ties? Stick to red and blue? And where can I get some quality ties without breaking the bank?

I've recommended http://www.thetiebar.com/. These are $15 dollar ties. I would stick to blue and red. Pindot and houndstooth.

[Aston2412]

What are the feelings on ties? Stick to red and blue? And where can I get some quality ties without breaking the bank?

Solid colors or a simple stripe are always a safe bet. Red and blue if you want to be conservative. Green is good with a blue shirt too and it's not too wild. Purple or black if you're feeling adventuresome.

[kaiser]

You don't think the material of your shoe sole is a big deal interview wise? Hmm, thats quite the eye-opening revelation. Wouldn't have guessed it. I hear they put cameras into the ground so they can monitor the material of your sole under the table. They then make 2 lists of candidates, based on shoe-sole material. Then they laugh at all those with leather soles.

Ok ok, all joking aside, you guys are overthinking this just as much as your are overthinking pretty much every other article of clothing thats been discussed in this thread. Take a look at the recruiter taking Q's thread. He got a kick out of the neurotics in this one, and said that we were overthinking it. He said that, as long as it is neat and fits well, you are fine. I'm not saying that one shouldn't invest in a well-made and durable pair of shoes. I'm just saying that certain details don't matter for purposes of OCI interviews.

Uh huh. I'm recommending pretty much the cheapest, simplest shoe on the market. All of my advice in this thread has been shorter than your post. Doesn't seem that neurotic to me.

I'm joking with you dude. Was more referring to some other peoples' posts than yours

[Pufer]

Ok ok, all joking aside, you guys are overthinking this just as much as your are overthinking pretty much every other article of clothing thats been discussed in this thread. Take a look at the recruiter taking Q's thread. He got a kick out of the neurotics in this one, and said that we were overthinking it. He said that, as long as it is neat and fits well, you are fine. I'm not saying that one shouldn't invest in a well-made and durable pair of shoes. I'm just saying that certain details don't matter for purposes of OCI interviews.

Your recruiter fellow submitted that he didn't know what suit he wore yesterday, much less noticed what suit any of his interviewees were wearing.

I know what I wore yesterday. I know the shirt I wore every day for the last month. I know the last occasion on which I wore every tie I own, and the precise number of times I've worn each of those ties (I have over a thousand ties). I know what I wore to every interview I've ever had, and can remember what every one of the interviewers was wearing. I can tell you the exact outfit I've worn to every court appearance I made in clinic, down to the exact pair of socks and underwear I wore. I could tell you how, where, and roughly when I purchased every article of clothing I own.

My picture in my 'tar was taken on June 15, 2008. The outfit was for my cousin's wedding, where we were expressly forbidden from wearing suits or ties (the groom and groomsmen all got their outfits from Walmart - George dress shirts (you can tell from the collar curve and stitching) and Dickies brand navy work khakis). I've worn that shirt, purchased the previous Sunday at Sears of all places, exactly five times since that day, four times under an open hawaiian shirt (three different hawaiian shirts), and once by itself (I own exactly six shirts purchased at Sears, that one, one identical one in a dark brown, three polo shirts with vertical textured lines that I purchased in late-Summer 2009, and one gray Dockers polo with a diamond pattern that I purchased in Spring 2010). I've worn that sport coat exactly once since then as I generally prefer to avoid pale sportcoats if I can. The pants I was wearing was a pair of Haggar slacks, double pleated, with cuffs. I've worn them exactly ten times since then, nine during the summer of 2009 working my summer internship, and once since for some kind of career services event in September 2009.

You are entirely correct to not be worried about what some guy who can't remember what he wore yesterday thinks about what you're wearing.

I, on the other hand, am going to remember every piece of clothing you have on in your interview with me for the rest of my life, especially if you give me reason to remember it.

You don't worry about the interviewers who don't care (I once did an OCI interview with a female interviewer who was wearing overalls; I doubt she noticed the navy JAB Executive pindot tie I was wearing, one of only two times I wore that tie to an OCI interview). A lot of interviewers do care, however, and you should worry about them, at least a little.

Of course, some interviewers will be able to identify the brand of shirt you're wearing from the collar stitching, but you probably don't have to worry too much about them either.

What are the feelings on ties? Stick to red and blue? And where can I get some quality ties without breaking the bank?

I've recommended http://www.thetiebar.com/. These are $15 dollar ties. I would stick to blue and red. Pindot and houndstooth.

The Tie Bar is definitely solid for the price. It's also a great source because you can point to particular standard patterns that are very appropriate.

As Bronte said, stick to red and blue. Their pindot is very good (although I hate it when my ties aren't perfectly aligned both vertically and horizontally—a definite problem with buying ties online—nobody else really cares so long as it's not particularly noticeable; with small patterns like pindots, it's not very noticeable). As to their houndstooth patterns, I think their small-houndstooth (they call it "Sweet Tooth") is the way to go as it fades into the background much like the pindot.

To Bronte's list, I would add their Biz pattern, especially if you prefer a red tie (the "Crimsons" and "Reds" variants would both make great interview ties). It's basically a textured pindot pattern.

Alternatively, check those ties out and then hit the stores, looking for similar ties a thickness, depth, alignment, and hand that you like in person; things you're not going to be able to assess ordering from the Tie Bar.

-Pufer

[in my eyes]

Get some Allen Edmonds - Park Avenues. Any less of a shoe and you'll look like a hopeless poor. You're spending $120k+ on law school. Buying $100 shoes with rubber soles is a surefire sign that you don't have a clue. This talk about foreign made, cheaply constructed Johnson & Murphy garbage is so 0L. If you have $ look into some C&J or Alden captoes. If you're into softer leather and won't be doing a ton of walking look into some Gravati Cap Toes. Lance @ VirtualClothesHorse on Styleforum generally has a bunch at 50% or so of retail. If you're a GQMF you can probably get away with an Allen Edmonds Strand in Walnut but personally I'd rock black captoes until your offer letter is signed.

If you think shoes don't matter, think again. At my final interview before getting an offer the senior partner I interviewed with said "nice shoes" and went on to tell me about how young people tend to buy total garbage that embarasses him in front of clients.

I know someone will come on and tell me that shoes don't matter and they got a job at WLRK with a $20 pair from Payless or that you rocked gold alligator shoes and got a gig at Goldman Sachs. That isn't the point. You just spent $120k+ on an education. Don't take chances on footwear. If you don't have $ for new shoes head to eBay. You can find an almost new pair of Park Aves for $120 or so.

[alirod12]

Also, if you're dishing out the money for a brand like Allen Edmonds, just cough up an extra $150 or so and go European. American brands, while often classic, have nothing on any of the major Euro lines, and can be way more frumpy.

[romothesavior]

Get some Allen Edmonds - Park Avenues. Any less of a shoe and you'll look like a hopeless poor. You're spending $120k+ on law school. Buying $100 shoes with rubber soles is a surefire sign that you don't have a clue. This talk about foreign made, cheaply constructed Johnson & Murphy garbage is so 0L. If you have $ look into some C&J or Alden captoes. If you're into softer leather and won't be doing a ton of walking look into some Gravati Cap Toes. Lance @ VirtualClothesHorse on Styleforum generally has a bunch at 50% or so of retail. If you're a GQMF you can probably get away with an Allen Edmonds Strand in Walnut but personally I'd rock black captoes until your offer letter is signed.

If you think shoes don't matter, think again. At my final interview before getting an offer the senior partner I interviewed with said "nice shoes" and went on to tell me about how young people tend to buy total garbage that embarasses him in front of clients.

I know someone will come on and tell me that shoes don't matter and they got a job at WLRK with a $20 pair from Payless or that you rocked gold alligator shoes and got a gig at Goldman Sachs. That isn't the point. You just spent $120k+ on an education. Don't take chances on footwear. If you don't have $ for new shoes head to eBay. You can find an almost new pair of Park Aves for $120 or so.

Shoes do matter, I completely agree. And rubber soles are disgusting, everyone should wear leather in the legal world.

That said, I doubt you or anyone else could tell the difference between a brand new pair of Park Aves and a brand new pair of J&Ms, or even a brand new pair of lower end shoes like Bostonians or Florsheims or something. The difference in these shoes is their quality and longevity, not in their intrisically more awesomer style or look. I bought a pair of Bostonian captoes from Bergner's a few years ago for like $90 for an interview, and they looked and worked great. They look like garbage now, and my next purchase will definitely be something higher end that lasts longer, but to suggest that someone wouldn't be fine with a pair of J&M captoes for a few weeks of OCI interviews/CBs is kind of ridiculous honestly.

[daesonesb]

Get some Allen Edmonds - Park Avenues. Any less of a shoe and you'll look like a hopeless poor. You're spending $120k+ on law school. Buying $100 shoes with rubber soles is a surefire sign that you don't have a clue. This talk about foreign made, cheaply constructed Johnson & Murphy garbage is so 0L. If you have $ look into some C&J or Alden captoes. If you're into softer leather and won't be doing a ton of walking look into some Gravati Cap Toes. Lance @ VirtualClothesHorse on Styleforum generally has a bunch at 50% or so of retail. If you're a GQMF you can probably get away with an Allen Edmonds Strand in Walnut but personally I'd rock black captoes until your offer letter is signed.

If you think shoes don't matter, think again. At my final interview before getting an offer the senior partner I interviewed with said "nice shoes" and went on to tell me about how young people tend to buy total garbage that embarasses him in front of clients.

I know someone will come on and tell me that shoes don't matter and they got a job at WLRK with a $20 pair from Payless or that you rocked gold alligator shoes and got a gig at Goldman Sachs. That isn't the point. You just spent $120k+ on an education. Don't take chances on footwear. If you don't have $ for new shoes head to eBay. You can find an almost new pair of Park Aves for $120 or so.

Shoes do matter, I completely agree. And rubber soles are disgusting, everyone should wear leather in the legal world.

That said, I doubt you or anyone else could tell the difference between a brand new pair of Park Aves and a brand new pair of J&Ms, or even a brand new pair of lower end shoes like Bostonians or Florsheims or something. The difference in these shoes is their quality and longevity, not in their intrisically more awesomer style or look. I bought a pair of Bostonian captoes from Bergner's a few years ago for like $90 for an interview, and they looked and worked great. They look like garbage now, and my next purchase will definitely be something higher end that lasts longer, but to suggest that someone wouldn't be fine with a pair of J&M captoes for a few weeks of OCI interviews/CBs is kind of ridiculous honestly.

My new shoes. Plan on wearing them with a navy suit i recently had tailored, a classic white spread collar shirt, and a half windsored stripe tie. I have a belt which matches these in shade... Is this look going to be considered too bold? To me, the shoe seems like a classic, but I could see how it would call some attention.

Also, do you all keep your top button done up while during the interview? I'm of the type who likes to unbutton when I sit down, but I can hear contrary opinions.

[alumniguy]

Re: shoes - this is one area I would encourage guys to spend additional money. If you buy a good pair of shoes, they'll last. In fact, I just had my heels replaced on two of my pairs of shoes that I've owned for three years now. It cost me $20 to have the heel fully replaced (and that is NYC Midtown pricing).

I'd recommend going to a Saks Off Fifth and getting some of the Saks brand cap toe shoes. These shoes generally run about $200 or less. They are good, not great leather and in addition to the cap toes, they have other traditional styles. These shoes will last and when they start to look a bit drab, you get them shined for $5 and they look brand new. I actually think they look better over time.

Another option, if you can actually differentiate between good and bad shoes is to go to a DSW in a major city (the suburban mall stores don't carry the same products) and find some nice leather soled, good quality leather shoes for about $150/$250. I would generally stay away from Bostonian, J&M and even Cole Hahn.

I personally like Ferragamo cap toes, but I don't even own this as they are about $450 for the cheapest pair.

I'm surprised I am hearing so many proponents of black shoes. I would propose dark brown shoes as they go with both navy and grey...I personally don't like black shoes all that much.

[daesonesb]

The alternative are these:

[Helmholtz]

My new shoes.

I would not wear those to OCI.

[daesonesb]

My new shoes.

I would not wear those to OCI.

OK. Is it the shade of brown, the fact that they are split toed, or both?

[Helmholtz]

My new shoes.

I would not wear those to OCI.

OK. Is it the shade of brown, the fact that they are split toed, or both?

both

[alumniguy]

Get some Allen Edmonds - Park Avenues. Any less of a shoe and you'll look like a hopeless poor. You're spending $120k+ on law school. Buying $100 shoes with rubber soles is a surefire sign that you don't have a clue. This talk about foreign made, cheaply constructed Johnson & Murphy garbage is so 0L. If you have $ look into some C&J or Alden captoes. If you're into softer leather and won't be doing a ton of walking look into some Gravati Cap Toes. Lance @ VirtualClothesHorse on Styleforum generally has a bunch at 50% or so of retail. If you're a GQMF you can probably get away with an Allen Edmonds Strand in Walnut but personally I'd rock black captoes until your offer letter is signed.

If you think shoes don't matter, think again. At my final interview before getting an offer the senior partner I interviewed with said "nice shoes" and went on to tell me about how young people tend to buy total garbage that embarasses him in front of clients.

I know someone will come on and tell me that shoes don't matter and they got a job at WLRK with a $20 pair from Payless or that you rocked gold alligator shoes and got a gig at Goldman Sachs. That isn't the point. You just spent $120k+ on an education. Don't take chances on footwear. If you don't have $ for new shoes head to eBay. You can find an almost new pair of Park Aves for $120 or so.

Shoes do matter, I completely agree. And rubber soles are disgusting, everyone should wear leather in the legal world.

That said, I doubt you or anyone else could tell the difference between a brand new pair of Park Aves and a brand new pair of J&Ms, or even a brand new pair of lower end shoes like Bostonians or Florsheims or something. The difference in these shoes is their quality and longevity, not in their intrisically more awesomer style or look. I bought a pair of Bostonian captoes from Bergner's a few years ago for like $90 for an interview, and they looked and worked great. They look like garbage now, and my next purchase will definitely be something higher end that lasts longer, but to suggest that someone wouldn't be fine with a pair of J&M captoes for a few weeks of OCI interviews/CBs is kind of ridiculous honestly.

I think part of the shoe debate is about where you practice. In NYC, people notice shoes. Maybe it is the fact that we stare at people's shoes all the time on the subway and are just more conscious about it, but I've found footwear at law firms to be much nicer than the average footwear at other "business casual" work environments. I'm from the midwest and I can agree that what constitutes "nice" shoes out there is not the same as what constitutes "nice" shoes in NYC.

And while inexpensive shoes can pass a few weeks of OCI, that doesn't mean that is the best plan when buying shoes. The same argument could be made for suits. A tailored fit cheap suit ($250 from Banana Republic) would be completely fine for OCI purposes, but most people would probably suggest investing in a nicer suit and plan on keeping it for 5-10 years rather than 2-3 years. It really is the same for shoes. If you have an extra $100, then bump up your shoe purchase and get something that will last more than 1 year.