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1L at Penn, got my grades back last week, two B+s and a B. That's definitely below median, any idea where in the class that places me? I still don't have anything lined up for 1L summer (and am pretty behind on applying). I have some unrelated WE, nothing special. Am paying near-sticker. Am I in a lot of trouble for OCI/pre-OCI?

You have another semester to go, so I wouldn't get to down yet. I know people who were below median first semester and pulled well above after second. Reevalutae how you studied first semester and look for improvement. If your first semester professors will review your exams with you, that could lead to valuable insights on how you could improve your exam writing skills.

There's no real point in worrying for the sake of worrying. In a decent hiring year, even sub-median people at Penn typically get a biglaw offer. I'd only be seriously worried if you were pulling multiple Cs.

if the goal is to get a big law job in nyc, you should not be worried in the slightest

If you're talking about getting any big law job, you should not be worried at all. Find the career service spreadsheets, and you will see that there are several firms that hire their entire class from Penn at a B+ or lower average. It would help to know if you have more specific plans or goals, though.

nealric wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 28, 2025 10:44 am

You have another semester to go, so I wouldn't get to down yet. I know people who were below median first semester and pulled well above after second. Reevalutae how you studied first semester and look for improvement.

Echo this response. Speak with your professors and get feedback on your exams. You are already a better law student by virtue of having gone through that tough first semester. Plus, half of your spring classes are on an easier curve than your fall classes. You have a lot of room to improve your grades, and a transcript that shows an upward trend line tells an appealing story.

That said, your first priority should probably be securing a summer job. I would speak to career services about this if you are having trouble navigating applications; it is what they are there for.

Good luck!

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 28, 2025 12:37 pm

if the goal is to get a big law job in nyc, you should not be worried in the slightest

if the goal is to get a transactional big law job in nyc, you should not be worried in the slightest

Litigation is a different story

Would not panic, you need to train yourself how to study for and take law school exams and go in with a mindset of crushing your second semester. You’ll probably be fine with a 3.2 regardless, if the goal is transactional work (i.e., plenty of Texas/NY firms will take a 3.2 from Penn).

I had a 3.2 after my first semester at Michigan, and bounced back with a 3.8 the second. Still remember being pretty devastated getting my grades (the first that came in was the B). I ended up with 3 offers pre-OCI and several more during. Just put your head down and work hard and you’ll be fine

OP here, thank you all for the really thoughtful replies! I am in the process of scheduling meetings with all of my professors. Hopefully, I will be able to glean some insights from those. In terms of my goals, I would be happy to accept anything that pays market or near-market, but my main interests are Restructuring and Tax. I tried to get the grade sheet, but unfortunately, Career Services gave me the runaround and told me that it would not be available until shortly before the end of the semester. I want to be proactive with scheduling coffee chats/Zoom calls with attorneys at firms I would have a good chance at; does anybody know what firms tend to be a little less grade-selective from Penn/take lots of Penn students? I am pretty sure that we now have to submit our bid lists before we get second-semester grades back, so no matter what happens I have to bid conservatively.

You are totally fine, I had those first semester 1L grades at Penn, did a little better 2nd semester and ended up with a good biglaw nyc opportunity after graduation. Don’t stress, just focus on improving 2nd semester grades and you will be good.

For the grade sheet, ask a 2L (maybe your Morris fellow)? Someone will have last years, which will be totally fine for networking targeting.

Don't rely on OCS for anything. They are useless and often give counterproductive advice. Find a 2L who will give you good advice (as well as that spreadsheet)

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 28, 2025 9:03 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 28, 2025 12:37 pm

if the goal is to get a big law job in nyc, you should not be worried in the slightest

if the goal is to get a transactional big law job in nyc, you should not be worried in the slightest

Litigation is a different story

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 28, 2025 12:37 pm

if the goal is to get a big law job in nyc, you should not be worried in the slightest

I strongly disagree with these comments. While you're certainly on track to get a standard biglaw job. Having a 3.2 from Penn going into OCI could also very conceivably lead to striking out. Particularly so if you're a KJD or don't interview well.

TLDR its far from over for you, but take this as a time to really prep those interviews.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 08, 2025 4:26 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 28, 2025 9:03 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 28, 2025 12:37 pm

if the goal is to get a big law job in nyc, you should not be worried in the slightest

if the goal is to get a transactional big law job in nyc, you should not be worried in the slightest

Litigation is a different story

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 28, 2025 12:37 pm

if the goal is to get a big law job in nyc, you should not be worried in the slightest

I strongly disagree with these comments. While you're certainly on track to get a standard biglaw job. Having a 3.2 from Penn going into OCI could also very conceivably lead to striking out. Particularly so if you're a KJD or don't interview well.

TLDR its far from over for you, but take this as a time to really prep those interviews.

This is true, but it's also true with a 3.5+. Important to prep fully for interviews, and nowadays to really work the networking circuit for pre OCI.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 27, 2025 5:32 pm

1L at Penn, got my grades back last week, two B+s and a B. That's definitely below median, any idea where in the class that places me? I still don't have anything lined up for 1L summer (and am pretty behind on applying). I have some unrelated WE, nothing special. Am paying near-sticker. Am I in a lot of trouble for OCI/pre-OCI?

You're not that far below median. I had a couple B- in my 1L year at Penn and landed at a v50 and now have been practicing for 8 years and am at a v10 on track to hopefully make partner.

Median 1L first semester at Penn is B+, B+, B, so you are completely fine.

What is your goal? If you just want to do transactional work in NYC, you're literally still going to have offers thrown at you, especially not being KJD. Take a deep breath, reach out to your Morris Fellow/Littleton/other mentors for more specific advice to your situation, we have a very high placement rate and you're not the bottom of the barrel.

Just maybe don't shoot for DC appellate litigation or anything crazy like that, unless you think you're gonna get an A+ in Con Law/Admin in the meantime. Be realistic about your goals.

OP here, thank you all for the thoughtful replies! Re: the median, I’m pretty sure that B- used to be on the curve but isn’t anymore, so B+ B+ B is definitely below median (I’ve tried to get insight on whether it’s bottom 30%, 20%, etc and not gotten anything definitive)”.

I have a particular interest in debtor side RX (no background to show it other than the bankruptcy elective though) but I will take absolutely anything that pays at or near market. Fortunately, I recently found something for 1L summer, so now my focus is entirely on grades/2L hiring.

OCI has been moved up this year to late May/early June, but some firms are opening up for 2L now. I know that traditional OCI is dead, but does anybody have insight into what percentage of offers will be going out before the “new” OCI? Unfortunately I have not started networking yet (but I hope to schedule some phone calls and attend some events in the coming weeks), nor have I practiced interviewing, so I am really reluctant to start applying now.

I know that in the previous years, hiring with one semester of grades usually only happened in the case of above median students, will this year be different? Should I just apply with what I have now and hope for the best, or at least wait until around May, when they would have my grades before making a final decision?

Last of all, should I participate in/how much time should I put into the write-on competition? I know that it won’t be a factor for hiring this round because decisions won’t be out, but I’m really worried I’m going to strike out and am trying to make sure I have a path to a shot at 3L hiring, clerkships, etc (assuming I can improve my grades this semester and next year). Is LR/journal not really a plus factor anymore?

The biggest red flags in your comments, OP, are that you didn’t have a 1L job locked down (probably because you listened to OCS advice that you could hold off on applying until january) and that you’re asking OCS about what firms take students like you. OCS is useless these days and often gives harmful advice. One of the biggest risk factors in striking out at OCI is listening to OCS instead of taking initiative on your own to network with attorneys and secure interviews before OCI. That’s what you need to do. Don’t sit back and relax because OCS tells you it’s too early to be applying for jobs; plenty of applications for summer 2026 are open now and some firms are even interviewing right now. Go look at the biglawrecruiting reddit for information.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 07, 2025 11:00 am

The biggest red flags in your comments, OP, are that you didn’t have a 1L job locked down (probably because you listened to OCS advice that you could hold off on applying until january) and that you’re asking OCS about what firms take students like you. OCS is useless these days and often gives harmful advice. One of the biggest risk factors in striking out at OCI is listening to OCS instead of taking initiative on your own to network with attorneys and secure interviews before OCI. That’s what you need to do. Don’t sit back and relax because OCS tells you it’s too early to be applying for jobs; plenty of applications for summer 2026 are open now and some firms are even interviewing right now. Go look at the biglawrecruiting reddit for information.

I did hold off on starting 1L summer applications until I had grades, which was definitely a mistake. I recently found a 1L summer position, so I am set there. I am definitely very behind on networking and am trying to schedule some phone/Zoom calls with associates and partners in the coming weeks. I will definitely be applying to some firms before OCI (which at Penn has now been moved up to late May, when PEP used to be), but I am nervous about applying so early that my second-semester grades will not even be considered. Its not the absolute bottom of the class, but a 3.2 is below average for pretty much every market paying firm, as far as I can tell. Some journals (including the business journal) allow for direct applications before the writing competition, so I may also be able to put that on my resume if I apply a little later.

I have been looking at the biglawrecruiting reddit, but the advice there has generally not been in line with what I've heard from upperclassmen, at least for somebody with my GPA. What percentage of offers do you think are going to be going out without considering second-semester grades? Is it really better to apply cold without any demonstrated interest than to try to schedule some coffee chats and then apply a few weeks later?

Biggest determinative (besides another semester of grades) will be your interviewing - do you have an interesting background? Below Penn median is still quite sufficient for offers at a majority of firms, but you'll need to stand out from the crowd a bit through networking/background/diversity to convert a high percentage of interviews into offers.

As to your question on firms - if you stay just below median - given tax and restructuring interests, suppose I'd reach for Weil, Milbank, Akin, Paul Hastings, Proskauer and Willkie. (This is all NY.) Can safely target Dechert, Schulte, Katten and lots of others, especially satellite offices of non-NY HQ'd firms.

Suspect the pendulum will swing quickly and you'll have a choice among several good firms. Don't go into interviews thinking you need to overcome your grades - you don't, so just be yourself.

I was in a similar situation after first semester 1L and went into panic mode and ended up crushing it. I thought I'd flame out at OCI, so I researched other job fairs (there are ones for IP, minority groups, certain regions, etc.) and cold emailed alumni to get pre-OCI interviews. I did around 20, even with some firms that were at OCI. Even non-NYC cities. Even practice areas I wasn't that interested in. Got some offers and a ton of interviewing experience. By the time OCI rolled around, I had my pitch nailed down and was super confident. Also, since I came in with offers, I targeted a lot more reach firms at OCI that didn't have strict grade cut-offs. It paid off with plenty of offers, including from multiple v5s and v10s.

If you learn to dance the dance in interviews, it can certainly overcome your grades (to an extent). Get experience interviewing. Be confident. Be personable. Be interesting. Have answers for tough questions. Be able to articulate complex legal issues that interest you. And try to turn your interviews into conversations. I've given the same advice to 1Ls behind me in the same situation and those that listened banked offers. Having been on the other side of the SA interviewing table I've seen why: so many 1Ls come into OCI with little interviewing experience, if any at all. The bar is pretty low for OCI as you're not really getting interviewed on your substantive knowledge. This is a golden opportunity that many squander. Treat OCI like final exams, overprepare, and watch it pay off.

If you wait until OCI, you run the risk that firms have already filled a lot of their spots. You might as well apply early to the firms that have announced they’re pulling out of OCI, at least. Is Penn still trying to tell students they’ll be punished for applying before/outside OCI?