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For those who are also in the unfortunate position of having an honors attorney offer revoked, what is your plan for next steps? I am not optimistic about offers being reinstated.

jmmm224 wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 6:44 pm

For those who are also in the unfortunate position of having an honors attorney offer revoked, what is your plan for next steps? I am not optimistic about offers being reinstated.

I'm so sad to hear that you're going through this. I can only imagine how frustrating this is, especially when the basis for this whole hiring freeze is so half-baked and meant to send a message to supporters who really couldn't care less.

In any event, there was a hiring freeze at the start of the last T administration. I believe my federal agency at the time hired that full class (2017) in the end, but then didn't have an honors class the following year (2018). Also, of that 2017 class, a few of the graduates had already accepted new jobs in the interim and didn't end up joining. Maybe my memory is fuzzy and someone else will comment with anecdotes of how it went at their agency - but I'm fairly sure that's correct. I'm hopeful that something similar will happen for you all, but I strongly recommend getting applications out for other positions as hard as that may be to stomach. A lot of what's happening now is the same as it was then, but there are at least attempts being made at doing things differently this time around. No telling what'll be different or the same.

Consider clerkships in particular. That way, even if they don't onboard this year but have a class next year, you can reapply. (For everyone's benefit, most honors programs require applicants to be either 3Ls or clerking without having passed the bar).

Good luck to you! I hope it all works out.

[duplicate]

My understanding is that the DOJ honors program was not cancelled last time, and this time the cuts are deeper.

The EO stated that anyone who received an offer and accepted before January 20 is exempt, no?

They pulled your offer anyway? That's deeply rough.

I agree with the advice above about applying for clerkships.

You could mention in your cover letter too that you'd received an offer but that it was pulled follow the EO. I'm sure many judges and their law clerks reviewing applications would be sympathetic to your situation.

Wild Card wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 11:07 pm

The EO stated that anyone who received an offer and accepted before January 20 is exempt, no?

They pulled your offer anyway? That's deeply rough.

I agree with the advice above about applying for clerkships.

You could mention in your cover letter too that you'd received an offer but that it was pulled follow the EO. I'm sure many judges and their law clerks reviewing applications would be sympathetic to your situation.

No, previously accepted offers are only valid if your start date is in the next couple weeks (before a certain date in February). Others are revoked. All DOJ honors positions as well as those in most other agencies (outside of national security) were revoked, since no one is starting so soon. Many people in this position are already federal clerks and it is a bit late to get a clerkship for fall 2025, though that may work out for a handful of the 100+ people in this position.

It's very unfortunate that they took the offers away. For those who started honors in the Fall of 2024, should we be nervous?

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 11:57 pm

It's very unfortunate that they took the offers away. For those who started honors in the Fall of 2024, should we be nervous?

I am a little terrified about the recent OPM memo asking for a headcount on probationary employees because I am still on probation as a Fall/Winter 2024 Honors hire. I clerked and have essentially zero prospects in the city that I moved to. I passed up regional “BigLaw” in my hometown where I attended a shit-ranked law school for this job. It’s not like I had a backup plan…

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 11:25 pm

Wild Card wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 11:07 pm

The EO stated that anyone who received an offer and accepted before January 20 is exempt, no?

They pulled your offer anyway? That's deeply rough.

I agree with the advice above about applying for clerkships.

You could mention in your cover letter too that you'd received an offer but that it was pulled follow the EO. I'm sure many judges and their law clerks reviewing applications would be sympathetic to your situation.

No, previously accepted offers are only valid if your start date is in the next couple weeks (before a certain date in February). Others are revoked. All DOJ honors positions as well as those in most other agencies (outside of national security) were revoked, since no one is starting so soon. Many people in this position are already federal clerks and it is a bit late to get a clerkship for fall 2025, though that may work out for a handful of the 100+ people in this position.

OP from above who first mentioned clerkships--maybe more has changed in the last 10 years than I realized, but in honors classes at my agency, probably 1-2 of about 15 attorneys was a former clerk. I don't know if that percentage ever got much higher than that, but it definitely never got above 50% in the 4 or 5 honors classes I witnessed. The number doesn't really matter though. If the advice doesn't apply to you, then it doesn't apply.

But you're right on the EO. The offer had to be accepted, and the start date had to have been before Feb 9 (I think).

To the poster who asked about probation, it's a guess. The optimist in me who's been through the prior administration wants to say it's all scare tactics. My guess is that they may be looking for people in unpopular roles to easily get rid of before their probationary period ends and they gain more rights--"DEI roles" (whatever those are) being the obvious low-hanging fruit. But an across-the-board firing seems ripe for a legal challenge and probably not worth the headache. After all, if you want to get things done during an administration, you need actual employees to do the stuff. Unfortunately, so much of what's happening is new and weird and unpredictable though, so I can't assure you any more than that.

im a double clerk who was going to fed honors next year. clerking again would have extremely limited utility to me. should i just focus on post clerkship biglaw hiring at this point? what even are my other options.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 23, 2025 8:11 am

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 11:57 pm

It's very unfortunate that they took the offers away. For those who started honors in the Fall of 2024, should we be nervous?

I am a little terrified about the recent OPM memo asking for a headcount on probationary employees because I am still on probation as a Fall/Winter 2024 Honors hire. I clerked and have essentially zero prospects in the city that I moved to. I passed up regional “BigLaw” in my hometown where I attended a shit-ranked law school for this job. It’s not like I had a backup plan…

Same here. There's so much uncertainty, and I'm in a very, very targeted agency. It seems I'll need to start looking soon because things don't seem to be getting better. I just wouldn't want to wait and then it's too late, but I'm hoping for the best in the meantime.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 23, 2025 9:35 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 23, 2025 8:11 am

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 11:57 pm

It's very unfortunate that they took the offers away. For those who started honors in the Fall of 2024, should we be nervous?

I am a little terrified about the recent OPM memo asking for a headcount on probationary employees because I am still on probation as a Fall/Winter 2024 Honors hire. I clerked and have essentially zero prospects in the city that I moved to. I passed up regional “BigLaw” in my hometown where I attended a shit-ranked law school for this job. It’s not like I had a backup plan…

Same here. There's so much uncertainty, and I'm in a very, very targeted agency. It seems I'll need to start looking soon because things don't seem to be getting better. I just wouldn't want to wait and then it's too late, but I'm hoping for the best in the meantime.

EPA?

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 22, 2025 10:38 pm

My understanding is that the DOJ honors program was not cancelled last time, and this time the cuts are deeper.

Yes, that’s right. The honors program definitely continued under Trump, although some individual agencies may not have participated every year. But that kind of variation is pretty common, whereas cutting the entire thing is not.

Last time around, the hiring freeze sort of petered out after its initial term, never to be heard of again. Here, on its face, that’s 90 days, since that’s when OMB has to submit its plan to shrink the government work force. Plus there was actually a decent amount of wiggle room in the “necessary exemptions” language, depending of course on the agency/role.

But this time around feels so much more purposeful (and stupid. I mean, motherfucker, if you want to deport every single person who’s here without authorization, cutting the OCIJ IJ clerkships isn’t a great way to go about it), that I’m definitely not claiming past practice means anything.

And even if it is scare tactics/bluff, that doesn’t help the honors people.

Re probationary period, my knee-jerk reaction is that across-the-board firings do seem to be begging to get bogged down in lawsuits, but then, that only matters if they care, which they clearly don’t. It is honestly a scary time to be a probationary employee right now, especially in a disfavored agency.

I was driving to work this morning thinking how fun it is to go to a job where your (ultimate) boss loathes you.

While Trump appeases the billionaire class, he tells the MAGAT's that he's crushing the "elites" who went to T14 law schools.

Anyway, I'll get another tax cut, while the MAGAT's keep delivering my heavy appliances. Thank you MAGAT's, I'll leave you a tip if I have any cash on me.

The ironic part is honors programs are not usually the elite kids. It's a lot of Veterans and top students from state schools. Anyway as a federal honors (non-DOJ) still on probation, I feel everyone's pain.

Don't have a lot to offer other than my sympathies. As a "great recession" grad, a lot of my friends had offers rescinded in both public and private employment. There were also government hiring freezes in place at the time. Hopefully, the agencies are allowed some leeway after the initial period. The good news this time around is that the private sector is doing ok.

For those who had their federal Honors offers rescinded, keep your head up and start finding or utilizing your mentors asap. The military JAG corps are not impacted by the hiring freeze or OPM's looming probationary memo, (the EO exempts members of the armed forces), so begin applying to the various branches JAG corps for entry level positions (i.e., Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, and Coast Goard). Similarly, each branch has their OGC civilian equivalent (Army OGC, Navy OGC), and the DOD will continue to allow hiring for civilians as well.

The_MJ wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 26, 2025 1:53 pm

For those who had their federal Honors offers rescinded, keep your head up and start finding or utilizing your mentors asap. The military JAG corps are not impacted by the hiring freeze or OPM's looming probationary memo, (the EO exempts members of the armed forces), so begin applying to the various branches JAG corps for entry level positions (i.e., Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, and Coast Goard). Similarly, each branch has their OGC civilian equivalent (Army OGC, Navy OGC), and the DOD will continue to allow hiring for civilians as well.

I would rather take literally any other legal job. This is not an appealing option for most people who were headed to honors programs, if they’re even eligible based on physical requirements. Not to mention that the administration that revoked our offers doesn’t want women in the military.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 26, 2025 6:05 pm

The_MJ wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 26, 2025 1:53 pm

For those who had their federal Honors offers rescinded, keep your head up and start finding or utilizing your mentors asap. The military JAG corps are not impacted by the hiring freeze or OPM's looming probationary memo, (the EO exempts members of the armed forces), so begin applying to the various branches JAG corps for entry level positions (i.e., Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, and Coast Goard). Similarly, each branch has their OGC civilian equivalent (Army OGC, Navy OGC), and the DOD will continue to allow hiring for civilians as well.

I would rather take literally any other legal job. This is not an appealing option for most people who were headed to honors programs, if they’re even eligible based on physical requirements. Not to mention that the administration that revoked our offers doesn’t want women in the military.

No reason to lash out at ideas that don’t work for your particular preferences. I’m not sure what the JAG timeline is but I think it’s actually a great non-obvious suggestion for people headed to DOJ for criminal trial experience, who are a big chunk of honors program people at top schools. Many AUSAs and FPDs have JAG backgrounds.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 01, 2025 8:19 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 26, 2025 6:05 pm

The_MJ wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 26, 2025 1:53 pm

For those who had their federal Honors offers rescinded, keep your head up and start finding or utilizing your mentors asap. The military JAG corps are not impacted by the hiring freeze or OPM's looming probationary memo, (the EO exempts members of the armed forces), so begin applying to the various branches JAG corps for entry level positions (i.e., Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, and Coast Goard). Similarly, each branch has their OGC civilian equivalent (Army OGC, Navy OGC), and the DOD will continue to allow hiring for civilians as well.

I would rather take literally any other legal job. This is not an appealing option for most people who were headed to honors programs, if they’re even eligible based on physical requirements. Not to mention that the administration that revoked our offers doesn’t want women in the military.

No reason to lash out at ideas that don’t work for your particular preferences. I’m not sure what the JAG timeline is but I think it’s actually a great non-obvious suggestion for people headed to DOJ for criminal trial experience, who are a big chunk of honors program people at top schools. Many AUSAs and FPDs have JAG backgrounds.

Very few honors program people go into criminal positions, even at DOJ. This year the DOJ criminal division had six spots, and three of those six were asset forfeiture fellowships. Fewer than 5 spots for USAOs across the country. Antitrust had 25, four of which were criminal enforcement positions. JAG is also just not appealing to most people at top schools. People know it's an option because the recruiters mass-email students. They seemed to have special privileges to do that at my school.