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Current first year at a V10 firm in a major non-NYC market, leaving soonish to clerk (two years, district + appellate, neither in NYC). Picked the market for cost of living and have decided it's not worthwhile, and want to move back to NYC ASAP. Already licensed in NY as well. Don't want to go to my current firm's NYC office (it's very corp-focused and litigators there are definitely afterthoughts). I'd also like to trade up a bit prestige-wise if possible--my grades 1L weren't particularly strong and I whiffed on the S&Cs/Cravaths/Davis Polks and ended up at my generic and overly bureaucratic V10.

What firms would be interested in someone with my profile and would represent a trade-up from a Kirkland/Sidley/Latham-style of firm in terms of quality/sophistication of litigation? Just the boutiques, or are the traditional NYC white shoes also worth looking into? It's a ways out I know but I'm trying to see if there's anyone I should be networking with once my clerkships start so I can lay the groundwork to make it happen.

Lots of options, many threads on TLS if you use the search function. I'll go over a few that are well-respected amongst recent SDNY / EDNY law clerks:

• Susman Godfrey

• MoloLamken

• Patterson Belknap

• Hueston Hennigan

• Holwell Shuster

• Selendy Gay

JorgeMichael wrote: ↑

Fri Sep 27, 2024 11:32 am

Lots of options, many threads on TLS if you use the search function. I'll go over a few that are well-respected amongst recent SDNY / EDNY law clerks:

• Susman Godfrey

• MoloLamken

• Patterson Belknap

• Hueston Hennigan

• Holwell Shuster

• Selendy Gay

This is pretty much the list. Although Hueston Hennigan is too new in NYC to really have a reputation here, and I don't think there are any partners in their NYC office, so you should do some diligence. Also note that Selendy Gay just lost one of its name partners (Ellsberg). IMHO, Susman and MoloLamken should be at the top of the list.

S&Cs/Cravaths/Davis Polk are not going to be doing substantially more prestigous work in litigation then Kirkland/Sidley/Latham. Sounds like you want an elite boutique in which case the firms mentioned in the other comments are good.

I forgot to mention this in my original post, but if possible I'd really like to be an AUSA at some point in my career (which is why I was highlighting the traditional white-shoe firms as a priority). Are the boutiques still good for placing into SDNY/EDNY? Since I'm not clerking in SDNY, should I just give up on that/look elsewhere?

If you want to maximize chances for SDNY/EDNY, you should just look for firms that have high profile/respected former AUSAs: look to WilmerHale, PaulWeiss, DPW, etc. If you want a boutique, look to Morvillo, Molo, Petrillo Klein, Krieger, etc. But, especially for SDNY, you should be realistic about your chances and consider whether you would want to be at these firm even if it does not lead to being an AUSA.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 29, 2024 3:35 pm

If you want to maximize chances for SDNY/EDNY, you should just look for firms that have high profile/respected former AUSAs: look to WilmerHale, PaulWeiss, DPW, etc. If you want a boutique, look to Morvillo, Molo, Petrillo Klein, Krieger, etc. But, especially for SDNY, you should be realistic about your chances and consider whether you would want to be at these firm even if it does not lead to being an AUSA.

So I don't particularly want to be at a firm at all is part of it--I just realized I was interested in litigation too late to get a clerkship right out of law school, so I couldn't do DOJ Honors, and my firm choice was more about my original interest in transactional work.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 29, 2024 4:13 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 29, 2024 3:35 pm

If you want to maximize chances for SDNY/EDNY, you should just look for firms that have high profile/respected former AUSAs: look to WilmerHale, PaulWeiss, DPW, etc. If you want a boutique, look to Morvillo, Molo, Petrillo Klein, Krieger, etc. But, especially for SDNY, you should be realistic about your chances and consider whether you would want to be at these firm even if it does not lead to being an AUSA.

So I don't particularly want to be at a firm at all is part of it--I just realized I was interested in litigation too late to get a clerkship right out of law school, so I couldn't do DOJ Honors, and my firm choice was more about my original interest in transactional work.

Well if you want to be an AUSA your best bet is going to be at a firm.

You can be an AUSA in EDNY/SDNY out of the vast majority of V20 firms. Obviously, the classic powerhouse firms--places like DPW, Paul (comma) Weiss, Debevoise, WilmerHale, Wachtell--are producing a lot of AUSAs in large part due to their strong litigation practices and well-respected USAO alums. I will say that I have never met an AUSA in either office who came from from Latham or Quinn.

Most--probably north of 2/3's-- of the people who get hired for the EDNY and SDNY USAOs clerked, generally in EDNY/SDNY for an A3 judge (I've seen MJ clerks get hired in EDNY but not SDNY). So if that is on the table for you, I would recommend applying.

SDNY and EDNY get a lot of applications from strong candidates, though that has been diminishing in recent years. It's competitive, but not as tough as it was 5 or 10 years ago.

I would note that BigFed trial attorneys (looking at you SEC) pay better than USAOs and many BigLaw midlevels and seniors opt to go there instead of USAOs.

why hasn't Latham produced as many AUSAs at SDNY/EDNY? don't they also have a top white collar practice and many former AUSAs (esp those from SDNY)?

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 29, 2024 4:59 pm

You can be an AUSA in EDNY/SDNY out of the vast majority of V20 firms. Obviously, the classic powerhouse firms--places like DPW, Paul (comma) Weiss, Debevoise, WilmerHale, Wachtell--are producing a lot of AUSAs in large part due to their strong litigation practices and well-respected USAO alums. I will say that I have never met an AUSA in either office who came from from Latham or Quinn.

Most--probably north of 2/3's-- of the people who get hired for the EDNY and SDNY USAOs clerked, generally in EDNY/SDNY for an A3 judge (I've seen MJ clerks get hired in EDNY but not SDNY). So if that is on the table for you, I would recommend applying.

SDNY and EDNY get a lot of applications from strong candidates, though that has been diminishing in recent years. It's competitive, but not as tough as it was 5 or 10 years ago.

I would note that BigFed trial attorneys (looking at you SEC) pay better than USAOs and many BigLaw midlevels and seniors opt to go there instead of USAOs.

But would, say, a D-Ariz. + 11th Circuit clerk (not my combo, but similar) would still be in a decent position even without the SDNY/EDNY clerkship, assuming I then went to DPW/P,W/Wilmer/etc. for a couple years?

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 30, 2024 7:29 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 29, 2024 4:59 pm

You can be an AUSA in EDNY/SDNY out of the vast majority of V20 firms. Obviously, the classic powerhouse firms--places like DPW, Paul (comma) Weiss, Debevoise, WilmerHale, Wachtell--are producing a lot of AUSAs in large part due to their strong litigation practices and well-respected USAO alums. I will say that I have never met an AUSA in either office who came from from Latham or Quinn.

Most--probably north of 2/3's-- of the people who get hired for the EDNY and SDNY USAOs clerked, generally in EDNY/SDNY for an A3 judge (I've seen MJ clerks get hired in EDNY but not SDNY). So if that is on the table for you, I would recommend applying.

SDNY and EDNY get a lot of applications from strong candidates, though that has been diminishing in recent years. It's competitive, but not as tough as it was 5 or 10 years ago.

I would note that BigFed trial attorneys (looking at you SEC) pay better than USAOs and many BigLaw midlevels and seniors opt to go there instead of USAOs.

But would, say, a D-Ariz. + 11th Circuit clerk (not my combo, but similar) would still be in a decent position even without the SDNY/EDNY clerkship, assuming I then went to DPW/P,W/Wilmer/etc. for a couple years?

Yes of course. You're obsessing way too much about this. The important thing now is to go to a firm and do good work. Don't get tunnel vision and obsess over SDNY.

JorgeMichael wrote: ↑

Fri Sep 27, 2024 11:32 am

Lots of options, many threads on TLS if you use the search function. I'll go over a few that are well-respected amongst recent SDNY / EDNY law clerks:

• Susman Godfrey

• MoloLamken

• Patterson Belknap

• Hueston Hennigan

• Holwell Shuster

• Selendy Gay

What is long term comp like at these firms vs. firms like Wilmer, Deb, etc? Like wouldn’t you make more as a lit partner in biglaw? (Not counting Susman)

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 03, 2024 9:59 am

JorgeMichael wrote: ↑

Fri Sep 27, 2024 11:32 am

Lots of options, many threads on TLS if you use the search function. I'll go over a few that are well-respected amongst recent SDNY / EDNY law clerks:

• Susman Godfrey

• MoloLamken

• Patterson Belknap

• Hueston Hennigan

• Holwell Shuster

• Selendy Gay

What is long term comp like at these firms vs. firms like Wilmer, Deb, etc? Like wouldn’t you make more as a lit partner in biglaw? (Not counting Susman)

Yes you would prob make more as a lit partner in traditional biglaw but the main appeal of those listed firms is that making partner is actually an achievable goal so its not necessarily great advice to go to biglaw lit even if your goal is maximizing money. Have to imagine the expected value gained from a career at susman is higher than a career at Deb even if technically lit partners at Deb make more than most susman partners.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 03, 2024 8:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 03, 2024 9:59 am

JorgeMichael wrote: ↑

Fri Sep 27, 2024 11:32 am

Lots of options, many threads on TLS if you use the search function. I'll go over a few that are well-respected amongst recent SDNY / EDNY law clerks:

• Susman Godfrey

• MoloLamken

• Patterson Belknap

• Hueston Hennigan

• Holwell Shuster

• Selendy Gay

What is long term comp like at these firms vs. firms like Wilmer, Deb, etc? Like wouldn’t you make more as a lit partner in biglaw? (Not counting Susman)

Yes you would prob make more as a lit partner in traditional biglaw but the main appeal of those listed firms is that making partner is actually an achievable goal so its not necessarily great advice to go to biglaw lit even if your goal is maximizing money. Have to imagine the expected value gained from a career at susman is higher than a career at Deb even if technically lit partners at Deb make more than most susman partners.

I specifically said not counting Susman

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 03, 2024 10:09 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 03, 2024 8:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 03, 2024 9:59 am

JorgeMichael wrote: ↑

Fri Sep 27, 2024 11:32 am

Lots of options, many threads on TLS if you use the search function. I'll go over a few that are well-respected amongst recent SDNY / EDNY law clerks:

• Susman Godfrey

• MoloLamken

• Patterson Belknap

• Hueston Hennigan

• Holwell Shuster

• Selendy Gay

What is long term comp like at these firms vs. firms like Wilmer, Deb, etc? Like wouldn’t you make more as a lit partner in biglaw? (Not counting Susman)

Yes you would prob make more as a lit partner in traditional biglaw but the main appeal of those listed firms is that making partner is actually an achievable goal so its not necessarily great advice to go to biglaw lit even if your goal is maximizing money. Have to imagine the expected value gained from a career at susman is higher than a career at Deb even if technically lit partners at Deb make more than most susman partners.

I specifically said not counting Susman

Same thing for the others. I just used susman as a stand in because I assume the partners there make the most of your list.

In addition to the true litigation boutiques, Jenner, Patterson, and Wilmer have litigation-focused New York offices that draw people looking for that type of environment. Patterson and Wilmer have reputations (at least historically) for producing AUSAs. Per capita the places that produce the most AUSAs are white-collar boutiques that may pay below market. For civil lit, Susman is definitely the most selective office in NYC, though it has a similar WLB/money tradeoff to Wachtell.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 03, 2024 9:59 am

JorgeMichael wrote: ↑

Fri Sep 27, 2024 11:32 am

Lots of options, many threads on TLS if you use the search function. I'll go over a few that are well-respected amongst recent SDNY / EDNY law clerks:

• Susman Godfrey

• MoloLamken

• Patterson Belknap

• Hueston Hennigan

• Holwell Shuster

• Selendy Gay

What is long term comp like at these firms vs. firms like Wilmer, Deb, etc? Like wouldn’t you make more as a lit partner in biglaw? (Not counting Susman)

It's very, very, very hard to make equity partner in litigation at biglaw firms right now, especially corporate-driven New York-centric firms. Susman partners are on an EWYK system (that's why they can make so many) so their comp is all over the place.

Why has AUSA hiring gotten less competitive at SDNY?

Far fewer people want to become AUSAs especially from amongst the pool that SDNY prefers to hire from. The SEC, CFTC and Main Justice pay more than the US Attorney's Offices, and SDNY applications have precipitously declined.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 27, 2024 1:47 am

Why has AUSA hiring gotten less competitive at SDNY?

It hasn't really given how few spots there are, but I think a decent number of very progressive lawyers have this dumb idea that prosecution is unethical.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 27, 2024 10:23 am

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 27, 2024 1:47 am

Why has AUSA hiring gotten less competitive at SDNY?

It hasn't really given how few spots there are, but I think a decent number of very progressive lawyers have this dumb idea that prosecution is unethical.

I think if you're genuinely as progressive as some people in law school claim to be. (i.e., abolish prisons) its totally reasonable to believe prosecution is unethical.

I just don’t understand why people want to be an AUSA so bad. It doesn’t pay well (comparatively) and SDNY requires biglaw like hours. Only a few ever rise to political prominence out of the position. And not everyone gets through the revolving door to Biglaw partnership. Am I missing something?

Lacepiece23 wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 28, 2024 9:01 am

I just don’t understand why people want to be an AUSA so bad. It doesn’t pay well (comparatively) and SDNY requires biglaw like hours. Only a few ever rise to political prominence out of the position. And not everyone gets through the revolving door to Biglaw partnership. Am I missing something?

People want to prosecute criminals in federal court. They don’t give two shits about “political prominence” or working for a law firm where they’ll represent defendants that they would rather be prosecuting. I guess if you’re talking about SDNY specifically (can’t tell from your post), they prosecute high-level cases—terrorists, cartel leaders, politicians, etc. People find that kind of work fulfilling.

Lacepiece23 wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 28, 2024 9:01 am

I just don’t understand why people want to be an AUSA so bad. It doesn’t pay well (comparatively) and SDNY requires biglaw like hours. Only a few ever rise to political prominence out of the position. And not everyone gets through the revolving door to Biglaw partnership. Am I missing something?

there are some people who do it thinking it will make them a congressman or the next chairman of a V10 lit firm and if that is why then yeah you're right its probably dumb of them. for some people though they genuinely just like the work. I'm not an AUSA at SDNY but prosecuting SBF, Robert Menendez, and billionaires does seem kind of cool. Don't know why you would want to spend your days prosecuting felon in possession crimes, though, although everyone is different so maybe some people like that.