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What you should do is try to clerk in Hawaii or Alaska. Failing that, California Supreme Court (in particular Liu or Kruger).Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Aug 07, 2024 11:22 pmWill summer at an NYC v5 doing lit (yes, I know Vault means nothing for lit but it’s a shorthand). Can’t clerk bc (a) citizenship and (b) can’t afford to “volunteer” as a clerk for a year unpaid. Is appellate lit after graduation practically impossible? If not, what can I do to get it?
Appellate is hard enough to get with a CoA clerkship (SCOTUS clerks can feel more comfortable). There are many more applicants than seats and clerking (along with school+grades) is one of the easier ways to cull résumés. If you're a charismatic Sears Prize winner you can presumably work your way into a group regardless but you'd probably still get nudged to clerk after starting.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Thu Aug 08, 2024 9:45 pmOP here. Based on these responses, it seems the answer is no, you cannot do appellate without a clerkship?
Are territorial clerkships helpful regarding biglaw employment in any area of litigation ?Anonymous User wrote: ↑Thu Aug 08, 2024 8:00 amBesides Hawaii and Alaska, don’t forget the territories.
Torruella’s/Gelpi’s clerks didn’t/don’t have any difficulty getting jobs. Same for D.P.R. clerks, to some extent. I take it you mean Art. IV judges (like D.V.I.). I have no idea there.CanadianWolf wrote: ↑Fri Aug 09, 2024 7:56 pmAre territorial clerkships helpful regarding biglaw employment in any area of litigation ?Anonymous User wrote: ↑Thu Aug 08, 2024 8:00 amBesides Hawaii and Alaska, don’t forget the territories.
I am familiar with one individual who had such a clerkship, but failed to realize any benefit from the experience regarding employment back in the continental US.
Appellate work at the Manhattan DA would be great.
What even is biglaw appellate? Do any firms have actual pure appellate groups that take juniors? Even at like Jones Day Issues and Appeals the people aren’t just doing appellate work.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Aug 10, 2024 1:26 amBiglaw appellate? Very hard, unless you otherwise have a gold-plated resume. Government or regional appellate? More doable if you’re good. A SSC clerkship would be helpful, especially where you want to practice.
From which school? Having two friends who've done this is very strange because (a) most lower-48 federal judges do not hire volunteer clerks, and (b) most schools don't like it when their students volunteer clerk because it shows up as a ding on their ABA employment reports. Not sure what happens with the employment report when someone does it on a fellowship, but I don't think it's a positive. Coming from someone who looked into it and decided not to go for it.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Aug 11, 2024 12:25 pmTalk to the administrators at your school. You may be able to set up a fellowship where the school pays you some stipend to volunteer clerk for a lower-48 federal judge. I have two foreign friends who have successfully secured this arrangement.
One from Yale, one from Columbia. All of the above cautions are correct. But some judges treat volunteer clerks as regular clerks and allow them to use that title, entitling them to the regular signing bonus.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Mon Aug 19, 2024 11:36 pmFrom which school? Having two friends who've done this is very strange because (a) most lower-48 federal judges do not hire volunteer clerks, and (b) most schools don't like it when their students volunteer clerk because it shows up as a ding on their ABA employment reports. Not sure what happens with the employment report when someone does it on a fellowship, but I don't think it's a positive. Coming from someone who looked into it and decided not to go for it.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Aug 11, 2024 12:25 pmTalk to the administrators at your school. You may be able to set up a fellowship where the school pays you some stipend to volunteer clerk for a lower-48 federal judge. I have two foreign friends who have successfully secured this arrangement.
If Yale, that makes sense. I've heard anecdotally that Judge Calabresi, for instance, takes the top foreign student at Yale each year as a volunteer clerk.
Three more points to add about volunteer clerking. For one, some judges treat volunteer clerks like interns and do not permit volunteer clerks to use the title of Judicial Law Clerk. For another, judges who hire volunteer clerks as full law clerks apply the same hiring standards as they do for paid law clerks. So volunteer clerking is not a way for noncompetitive applicants to get in through the back door unless it's really an intern position. Lastly, and building on the last point, a volunteer clerkship (or any clerkship for that matter) will not make you competitive for positions that you are not already competitive for on paper.
OP might know all this already, but hopefully this helps!
I also know people who’ve done this, though admittedly on district courts, so not quite the same and I can’t speak to how generally circuit court judges do.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Mon Aug 19, 2024 11:36 pmFrom which school? Having two friends who've done this is very strange because (a) most lower-48 federal judges do not hire volunteer clerks, and (b) most schools don't like it when their students volunteer clerk because it shows up as a ding on their ABA employment reports. Not sure what happens with the employment report when someone does it on a fellowship, but I don't think it's a positive. Coming from someone who looked into it and decided not to go for it.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Aug 11, 2024 12:25 pmTalk to the administrators at your school. You may be able to set up a fellowship where the school pays you some stipend to volunteer clerk for a lower-48 federal judge. I have two foreign friends who have successfully secured this arrangement.
If Yale, that makes sense. I've heard anecdotally that Judge Calabresi, for instance, takes the top foreign student at Yale each year as a volunteer clerk.
Three more points to add about volunteer clerking. For one, some judges treat volunteer clerks like interns and do not permit volunteer clerks to use the title of Judicial Law Clerk. For another, judges who hire volunteer clerks as full law clerks apply the same hiring standards as they do for paid law clerks. So volunteer clerking is not a way for noncompetitive applicants to get in through the back door unless it's really an intern position. Lastly, and building on the last point, a volunteer clerkship (or any clerkship for that matter) will not make you competitive for positions that you are not already competitive for on paper.
OP might know all this already, but hopefully this helps!