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Taking a year off between LS and clerking?
Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2024 6:40 pm
by Anonymous User
3L here currently in the middle of the clerkship application process. I’ve gotten a lot of traction (just scheduled my 8th and 9th interviews for late next week), and it looks like I should get something for 2025-2026.
I’m supposed to go to a firm this fall, but I’m exceptionally not exited about it (had a miserable summer at a certain V10), and frankly I’m already starting to feel more than a bit burned out of law and really could use a break. Assuming I do actually get a clerkship for 2025, how much damage would it do to my career if I took a full year off before 1-2 federal clerkships (assuming my judge(s) don’t object)?
I’m most interested in government roles/impact litigation and this would, at least in theory, preserve my eligibility for things like DOJ honors. I’m not motivated by money, so that’s not a concern. Dream role would be state AG/SG office positions or DOJ.
I could also look into temporary fellowships, but I’m more than a bit late to the party for those.
Re: Taking a year off between LS and clerking?
Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2024 7:37 pm
by Anonymous User
By taking “a full year off,” do you mean literally not working at all? Or just not working in Big Law/private practice? There’s a pretty big difference between the two.
Assuming you mean working in anything but private practice, you might still have some luck with local- and maybe some state-level positions. As you mentioned, DOJ and most state AG/DOJ cycles already closed in the fall, so you’re out of the luck there.
State SGs/impact lit fellowship/etc. are unicorn jobs that have also long closed their app cycles.
But plenty of PI/PS places are still hiring, hence why some schools like YLS require firms to keep offers open until April 1 for students waiting to hear back. Anything would be better than doing “nothing” for a year. Just a question of whether you’d prefer a local gov position over firm work.
Re: Taking a year off between LS and clerking?
Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2024 7:52 pm
by Anonymous User
Would not reccomend doing this. You will get a large break after you take the BAR and your firm may give you the opportunity to push off begining until mid-October—do that. that amounts to basically a 2 to 2.5 month break.
Re: Taking a year off between LS and clerking?
Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2024 11:40 pm
by Anonymous User
Would this really preserve your eligibility for honors? You have to engage in an "eligibility preserving activity," which appears to be an affirmative requirement that you're doing something that isn't traditional legal practice - a clerkship, term honors program, graduate degree, or a fellowship. You can't work an actual job and there's nothing to suggest that not doing anything at all would preserve your eligibility.
Apart from that, my total gut reaction is that not working for that year would play best if you had more of a reason than "I could use a break." Like if you traveled the world during that time, that would be one thing. Or if this is actually about health (mental or otherwise) - if you can legitimately say, "I took time off for health reasons," that's another decent reason.
I can't say for certain how much it would damage your career, if at all - if you get a clerkship, and excel, you may be fine. But employers will definitely ask what you did with the year. And if it's something non-legal that involves you spending money rather than earning any, plenty of people will be concerned - did you hate law school or do you hate law or could you not find a job, etc. It might turn out fine, but you'd want a very convincing explanation.
Re: Taking a year off between LS and clerking?
Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2024 3:00 am
by Anonymous User
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Thu Feb 08, 2024 11:40 pm
Would this really preserve your eligibility for honors? You have to engage in an "eligibility preserving activity," which appears to be an affirmative requirement that you're doing something that isn't traditional legal practice - a clerkship, term honors program, graduate degree, or a fellowship. You can't work an actual job and there's nothing to suggest that not doing anything at all would preserve your eligibility.
Apart from that, my total gut reaction is that not working for that year would play best if you had more of a reason than "I could use a break." Like if you traveled the world during that time, that would be one thing. Or if this is actually about health (mental or otherwise) - if you can legitimately say, "I took time off for health reasons," that's another decent reason.
I can't say for certain how much it would damage your career, if at all - if you get a clerkship, and excel, you may be fine. But employers will definitely ask what you did with the year. And if it's something non-legal that involves you spending money rather than earning any, plenty of people will be concerned - did you hate law school or do you hate law or could you not find a job, etc. It might turn out fine, but you'd want a very convincing explanation.
Oh, I would definitely travel/do other things for a year. This isn't going to be me sitting on my hands. Like I've been meaning to get my pilot's license since the pandemic and I just haven't had the bandwidth in law school.
Also, as a note, I have several interviews I'm waiting to hear back from from clerkships that start in May/June--so I wouldn't even be able to be at my firm for more than a few months if I end up with one of those. Would that raise fewer alarm bells?
I need to look into the eligibility prong. I bet if I offered to do a "fellowship" somewhere for free I could still preserve eligibility, learn a little bit about an area of law, and then still have the time to go and do things.
Re: Taking a year off between LS and clerking?
Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2024 8:47 am
by Chokenhauer
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Feb 09, 2024 3:00 am
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Thu Feb 08, 2024 11:40 pm
Would this really preserve your eligibility for honors? You have to engage in an "eligibility preserving activity," which appears to be an affirmative requirement that you're doing something that isn't traditional legal practice - a clerkship, term honors program, graduate degree, or a fellowship. You can't work an actual job and there's nothing to suggest that not doing anything at all would preserve your eligibility.
Apart from that, my total gut reaction is that not working for that year would play best if you had more of a reason than "I could use a break." Like if you traveled the world during that time, that would be one thing. Or if this is actually about health (mental or otherwise) - if you can legitimately say, "I took time off for health reasons," that's another decent reason.
I can't say for certain how much it would damage your career, if at all - if you get a clerkship, and excel, you may be fine. But employers will definitely ask what you did with the year. And if it's something non-legal that involves you spending money rather than earning any, plenty of people will be concerned - did you hate law school or do you hate law or could you not find a job, etc. It might turn out fine, but you'd want a very convincing explanation.
Oh, I would definitely travel/do other things for a year. This isn't going to be me sitting on my hands. Like I've been meaning to get my pilot's license since the pandemic and I just haven't had the bandwidth in law school.
Also, as a note, I have several interviews I'm waiting to hear back from from clerkships that start in May/June--so I wouldn't even be able to be at my firm for more than a few months if I end up with one of those. Would that raise fewer alarm bells?
I need to look into the eligibility prong. I bet if I offered to do a "fellowship" somewhere for free I could still preserve eligibility, learn a little bit about an area of law, and then still have the time to go and do things.
Maybe I’m misunderstanding your post, but are you trying to “game” this by volunteering for a “fellowship” that isn’t really a “fellowship”? If so, I think that you will run into issues with the eligibility requirements (for instance, that the fellowship is posted publicly, has a published application process and published selection criteria, etc.).
And fellowships generally need to be 12 months in length. Exceptions exist, but they’re extremely rare.
Re: Taking a year off between LS and clerking?
Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2024 10:43 am
by Anonymous User
Also, assuming you get a clerkship, I’m not sure many judges would be ok with you just traveling the world for a year - having done clerk hiring, the fact that someone will have a year of legal experience before the clerkship is something a lot of judges value (and definitely consider) in picking candidates. If you tell the judge you plan to have a year of legal work experience and then spend the year not doing anything legal, I suspect that many judges will feel like you tried to pull a fast one on them (and rescission of the clerkship offer may be on the table). So if you’re seriously considering this, I’d admit to it in the interview if it comes up.
I completely understand not wanting to do big law though - if you’re not hurting for the money, your idea about being a volunteer attorney (what you described as a “fellowship”) for a public interest group that does work you’re interested in for a year would probably be the best path. Not doing anything legal seems like an unnecessary risk unless you really need the time for your health though.
Re: Taking a year off between LS and clerking?
Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2024 12:56 pm
by Anonymous User
Looking at the eligibility requirements, fuck, I don't think there's a way for me to preserve eligibility without a surprise 2024 clerkship popping up thanks to the 12-month fellowship requirement. I guess I might as well grit my teeth and spend a few months at my firm and just phone it in aggressively hard?
Re: Taking a year off between LS and clerking?
Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2024 1:08 pm
by trebekismyhero
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Feb 09, 2024 12:56 pm
Looking at the eligibility requirements, fuck, I don't think there's a way for me to preserve eligibility without a surprise 2024 clerkship popping up thanks to the 12-month fellowship requirement. I guess I might as well grit my teeth and spend a few months at my firm and just phone it in aggressively hard?
Yeah, just get paid for several months. You can phone it in by not doing any late night work and things like that, but it would be helpful for your clerkship and career afterwards if you pick up something from your firm. You won't learn that much in several months, but can at least get a feel for it. And then just take a couple months off before your clerkship starts. Edited to add: You can probably load up on pro bono work while you're there as well and avoid doing boring doc review.
Re: Taking a year off between LS and clerking?
Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2024 8:48 pm
by anon3030
Be completely honest with your judge and if they are cool with it, then go for it if money is not an issue. You already know you hate that life from your summer. Be you.
Re: Taking a year off between LS and clerking?
Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2024 5:24 am
by Anonymous User
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Feb 09, 2024 12:56 pm
Looking at the eligibility requirements, fuck, I don't think there's a way for me to preserve eligibility without a surprise 2024 clerkship popping up thanks to the 12-month fellowship requirement. I guess I might as well grit my teeth and spend a few months at my firm and just phone it in aggressively hard?
If you don't need the money and will lose honors eligibility either way, not sure why the shorter fellowship is off the table?
Re: Taking a year off between LS and clerking?
Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2024 6:51 pm
by calripkenjrjr
Go to the firm and coast like hell you silly goose
Re: Taking a year off between LS and clerking?
Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2024 11:25 am
by CanadianWolf
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Feb 09, 2024 10:43 am
Also, assuming you get a clerkship, I’m not sure many judges would be ok with you just traveling the world for a year - having done clerk hiring, the fact that someone will have a year of legal experience before the clerkship is something a lot of judges value (and definitely consider) in picking candidates. If you tell the judge you plan to have a year of legal work experience and then spend the year not doing anything legal, I suspect that many judges will feel like you tried to pull a fast one on them (and rescission of the clerkship offer may be on the table). So if you’re seriously considering this, I’d admit to it in the interview if it comes up.
I completely understand not wanting to do big law though - if you’re not hurting for the money, your idea about being a volunteer attorney (what you described as a “fellowship”) for a public interest group that does work you’re interested in for a year would probably be the best path. Not doing anything legal seems like an unnecessary risk unless you really need the time for your health though.
I have no direct experience, but the above seems like reasonable advice.
(Presenting yourself as burnt out on law before you are even finished with law school is not a good look.)
Re: Taking a year off between LS and clerking?
Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2024 7:11 pm
by Anonymous User
CanadianWolf wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2024 11:25 am
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Feb 09, 2024 10:43 am
Also, assuming you get a clerkship, I’m not sure many judges would be ok with you just traveling the world for a year - having done clerk hiring, the fact that someone will have a year of legal experience before the clerkship is something a lot of judges value (and definitely consider) in picking candidates. If you tell the judge you plan to have a year of legal work experience and then spend the year not doing anything legal, I suspect that many judges will feel like you tried to pull a fast one on them (and rescission of the clerkship offer may be on the table). So if you’re seriously considering this, I’d admit to it in the interview if it comes up.
I completely understand not wanting to do big law though - if you’re not hurting for the money, your idea about being a volunteer attorney (what you described as a “fellowship”) for a public interest group that does work you’re interested in for a year would probably be the best path. Not doing anything legal seems like an unnecessary risk unless you really need the time for your health though.
I have no direct experience, but the above seems like reasonable advice.
(Presenting yourself as burnt out on law before you are even finished with law school is not a good look.)
It's not so much that I'm burnt out on law, just that I really don't like my firm or the people at it (a certain Costco-themed establishment rightly lambasted on this forum). I also am not entirely sure I made the right call with my career, and in an ideal world would take the time to try and launch the startup I keep fantasizing about--that said, I know doing that kills any chance I have of a legal career so I'm not willing to take that jump just yet, especially when I have the objectively positive year(s) of clerking ahead of me.
Re: Taking a year off between LS and clerking?
Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2024 2:28 am
by Anonymous User
I normally am opposed to telling people to just suck it up and work but given your specific situation I think the answer here is to absolutely just dog it at Kirkland for a little while. You'll never have to work at big law again as soon as you start clerking. It's going to take the firm some time to get you onboarded and ramped up, and if they know you're leaving to clerk it'll also be easier near the end since they won't want to make you too important to any major projects. You can also pick the latest start date they offer and take a vacation. Then for the time you have to work, just show up and dog it and do well enough not to get fired for under one year.