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I was asked if I wanted to take a secondment to an important firm client but one that I don’t have a history of working with. I’ve been worried about getting fired this year and am unsure if this is the firm’s way to push me out. I would like to continue to work at firm for another 1.5 years but I also don’t want to get fired. Should I take it?

What year are you and is there any actual basis for your fear of being fired? If you think you’re on the verge of being fired for poor performance (rather than your runway coming to an end for whatever reason), then there’s no chance the firm would send you to an “important firm client”

If the firm truly wanted to fire you, they would not give you a secondment. I'm at a V5 and I know a guy who was confident that he was going to get fired due to poor performance on a handful of deals and low hours, so he requested a secondment and the firm declined his request.

My experience in a V5 is opposite the above. All the juniors I knew who were seconded were on a shitlist (but midlevels and seniors were more of a mix of "on shitlist" and "well regarded").

Is the secondment at least the same sort of work you do at the firm? Or are they like "Oh hi, capital markets associate, please try this bank-credit-agreement-compliance-role thing"?

(Either way, the secondment will give you a chance to keep getting biglaw money, expand your network, and come back to either start "Fresh" or give you a more interesting CV when you are applying to lateral --- so take it either way)

Well-run firms would not put underperformers in front of key clients like this. These are usually a sign that the firm believes you can expand the firm's revenue and client relationship more dramatically by on-site impact and live business development than you can by sitting at your desk billing that client by the hour.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 01, 2023 7:02 pm

I was asked if I wanted to take a secondment to an important firm client but one that I don’t have a history of working with. I’ve been worried about getting fired this year and am unsure if this is the firm’s way to push me out. I would like to continue to work at firm for another 1.5 years but I also don’t want to get fired. Should I take it?

As a side question, how do you go about getting a secondment? Do you ask a partner you trust? Is it something that's encouraged/discouraged typically?

As others have said, if you were on the verge of getting fired, they wouldn't put you in front of an important client. Either way, you should take the secondment and work hard and see if you like it. It could be a good way to get in-house and if not, those relationships at the client can help you at the firm.

Don't believe the people above. There's a good chance you're not performing up to expectations (although probably not the worst person in your class) because they're not going to send their best and busiest associates to a client. They're sending people they think are expendable but not going to completely embarrass the firm. Which is a very low bar because the stuff you're going to be doing for 6 months at a client will likely be fairly easy and low intensity.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 04, 2023 4:25 pm

Don't believe the people above. There's a good chance you're not performing up to expectations (although probably not the worst person in your class) because they're not going to send their best and busiest associates to a client. They're sending people they think are expendable but not going to completely embarrass the firm. Which is a very low bar because the stuff you're going to be doing for 6 months at a client will likely be fairly easy and low intensity.

Why don't believe the people above? They are giving their impressions about what happens at their firms. I am a partner at a V5, did a secondment with an important firm client when I was an associate (my performance reviews were always good), and am now the relationship partner with said firm client. I know at least 4 other partners at my firm with the same story with respect to their secondments, and I am sure there are others. Perhaps your experience differs or your firm handles it differently, but that doesn't mean those above are not to be believed.

BigLawPartner wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 04, 2023 7:33 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 04, 2023 4:25 pm

Don't believe the people above. There's a good chance you're not performing up to expectations (although probably not the worst person in your class) because they're not going to send their best and busiest associates to a client. They're sending people they think are expendable but not going to completely embarrass the firm. Which is a very low bar because the stuff you're going to be doing for 6 months at a client will likely be fairly easy and low intensity.

Why don't believe the people above? They are giving their impressions about what happens at their firms. I am a partner at a V5, did a secondment with an important firm client when I was an associate (my performance reviews were always good), and am now the relationship partner with said firm client. I know at least 4 other partners at my firm with the same story with respect to their secondments, and I am sure there are others. Perhaps your experience differs or your firm handles it differently, but that doesn't mean those above are not to be believed.

I remember there be an anon expressing the exact same sentiment in another secondment thread. That may (or may not) be representative of their experience, but I definitely don't think it's the norm.

Firms generally aren't in the business of putting below average associates in visible roles at important clients.

Agreed. There is too much risk in putting low performers in that role, where their work is evaluated in real-time by the clients with no opportunity for partner supervision. They wouldn't put people that aren't already autonomously capable lawyers and polished, client-facing type personalities in that position. Firms like P,W use secondments to Apollo to give their busiest and hardest working associates a bit of a reprieve to increase their longevity at the firm.

existentialcrisis wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 05, 2023 2:16 pm

BigLawPartner wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 04, 2023 7:33 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 04, 2023 4:25 pm

Don't believe the people above. There's a good chance you're not performing up to expectations (although probably not the worst person in your class) because they're not going to send their best and busiest associates to a client. They're sending people they think are expendable but not going to completely embarrass the firm. Which is a very low bar because the stuff you're going to be doing for 6 months at a client will likely be fairly easy and low intensity.

Why don't believe the people above? They are giving their impressions about what happens at their firms. I am a partner at a V5, did a secondment with an important firm client when I was an associate (my performance reviews were always good), and am now the relationship partner with said firm client. I know at least 4 other partners at my firm with the same story with respect to their secondments, and I am sure there are others. Perhaps your experience differs or your firm handles it differently, but that doesn't mean those above are not to be believed.

I remember there be an anon expressing the exact same sentiment in another secondment thread. That may (or may not) be representative of their experience, but I definitely don't think it's the norm.

Firms generally aren't in the business of putting below average associates in visible roles at important clients.

What's the best way to secure a secondment? Is it something that typically comes as a request from the client, or partner? Fifth year thinking about doing one, but unsure whether it's frowned upon to bring up (work in a pretty small group).

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 07, 2023 11:46 am

Agreed. There is too much risk in putting low performers in that role, where their work is evaluated in real-time by the clients with no opportunity for partner supervision. They wouldn't put people that aren't already autonomously capable lawyers and polished, client-facing type personalities in that position. Firms like P,W use secondments to Apollo to give their busiest and hardest working associates a bit of a reprieve to increase their longevity at the firm.

Is seconding at Apollo really a reprieve though?

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 07, 2023 11:24 pm

existentialcrisis wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 05, 2023 2:16 pm

BigLawPartner wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 04, 2023 7:33 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 04, 2023 4:25 pm

Don't believe the people above. There's a good chance you're not performing up to expectations (although probably not the worst person in your class) because they're not going to send their best and busiest associates to a client. They're sending people they think are expendable but not going to completely embarrass the firm. Which is a very low bar because the stuff you're going to be doing for 6 months at a client will likely be fairly easy and low intensity.

Why don't believe the people above? They are giving their impressions about what happens at their firms. I am a partner at a V5, did a secondment with an important firm client when I was an associate (my performance reviews were always good), and am now the relationship partner with said firm client. I know at least 4 other partners at my firm with the same story with respect to their secondments, and I am sure there are others. Perhaps your experience differs or your firm handles it differently, but that doesn't mean those above are not to be believed.

I remember there be an anon expressing the exact same sentiment in another secondment thread. That may (or may not) be representative of their experience, but I definitely don't think it's the norm.

Firms generally aren't in the business of putting below average associates in visible roles at important clients.

What's the best way to secure a secondment? Is it something that typically comes as a request from the client, or partner? Fifth year thinking about doing one, but unsure whether it's frowned upon to bring up (work in a pretty small group).

Probably depends on your group dynamics but I’ve definitely seen people ask before and at least in my experience it wouldn’t be an inappropriate question.

Like most things in law school/law firms: don't look too much into it. It could be that they're trying to let you go, but in a way that you get a job at a company that the firm is friendly with, to ensure you keep on giving them work. Or it could be that they're just grooming you to learn more.

It honestly really depends on the company, as another poster said. Is it a more prestigious, very important client or entity? They probably just want to keep you. Is it some more random assignment? Probably getting rid of you.

Either way, don't worry about it too much. I think secondments are always helpful and a nice way to get more experience and (hopefully) work a bit less.