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White collar AUSA in a big district here with HCOL. I’ve been here for 4 years, around a decade of practicing as a lawyer now.

Im burned out and want to leave the USAO for a high (better) paying position with low stress and better hours.

Im currently considering the SEC’s branch office in my city or else trying to go in-house in an investigations type role.

What should be guiding my decision here and are there any other jobs I should be considering?

What about Antitrust Division? Hours are pretty chill, investigations (antitrust and the other fraud stuff that comes in through PCSF) take forever, so trial stress isn't there often, and things are rarely urgent. GS scale, so not as good as SEC there, but still better than AD by a good margin.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 23, 2023 12:51 am

What about Antitrust Division? Hours are pretty chill, investigations (antitrust and the other fraud stuff that comes in through PCSF) take forever, so trial stress isn't there often, and things are rarely urgent. GS scale, so not as good as SEC there, but still better than AD by a good margin.

Interesting. Does criminal vs civil matter? I always assumed that they were lke USAO but I have nothing to support that. Also, I have no antitrust experience in my background. Is that fatal?

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 24, 2023 7:42 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 23, 2023 12:51 am

What about Antitrust Division? Hours are pretty chill, investigations (antitrust and the other fraud stuff that comes in through PCSF) take forever, so trial stress isn't there often, and things are rarely urgent. GS scale, so not as good as SEC there, but still better than AD by a good margin.

Interesting. Does criminal vs civil matter? I always assumed that they were lke USAO but I have nothing to support that. Also, I have no antitrust experience in my background. Is that fatal?

Yes it matters a lot. Antitrust crim is in shambles; morale is super low after a historic series of losses and mistrials, pressure by their FO to bring cases, and tremendous turnover. I wouldn't got there.

Civil antitrust is different; definitely trial opportunities, but at a slower pace than USAO. Having an antitrust background helps, but isn't fatal to not have it if you can convince folks that your litigation skills are strong (which I imagine wouldn't be a problem). Keep in mind a lot of the work is merger review/investigations.

If you want to do either criminal or civil and want a better work life balance, Consumer Protection does both. Again, like antitrust, investigations are long so trial stress is minimal. The friends I have there are really happy. It’s GS scale, so not as pay competitive as SEC.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 06, 2023 9:02 am

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 24, 2023 7:42 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 23, 2023 12:51 am

What about Antitrust Division? Hours are pretty chill, investigations (antitrust and the other fraud stuff that comes in through PCSF) take forever, so trial stress isn't there often, and things are rarely urgent. GS scale, so not as good as SEC there, but still better than AD by a good margin.

Interesting. Does criminal vs civil matter? I always assumed that they were lke USAO but I have nothing to support that. Also, I have no antitrust experience in my background. Is that fatal?

Yes it matters a lot. Antitrust crim is in shambles; morale is super low after a historic series of losses and mistrials, pressure by their FO to bring cases, and tremendous turnover. I wouldn't got there.

Civil antitrust is different; definitely trial opportunities, but at a slower pace than USAO. Having an antitrust background helps, but isn't fatal to not have it if you can convince folks that your litigation skills are strong (which I imagine wouldn't be a problem). Keep in mind a lot of the work is merger review/investigations.

Not sure if this poster actually has any experience to back this up. Criminal usually has significantly better hours and fewer deadlines than the civil side.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 06, 2023 11:45 am

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 06, 2023 9:02 am

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 24, 2023 7:42 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 23, 2023 12:51 am

What about Antitrust Division? Hours are pretty chill, investigations (antitrust and the other fraud stuff that comes in through PCSF) take forever, so trial stress isn't there often, and things are rarely urgent. GS scale, so not as good as SEC there, but still better than AD by a good margin.

Interesting. Does criminal vs civil matter? I always assumed that they were lke USAO but I have nothing to support that. Also, I have no antitrust experience in my background. Is that fatal?

Yes it matters a lot. Antitrust crim is in shambles; morale is super low after a historic series of losses and mistrials, pressure by their FO to bring cases, and tremendous turnover. I wouldn't got there.

Civil antitrust is different; definitely trial opportunities, but at a slower pace than USAO. Having an antitrust background helps, but isn't fatal to not have it if you can convince folks that your litigation skills are strong (which I imagine wouldn't be a problem). Keep in mind a lot of the work is merger review/investigations.

Not sure if this poster actually has any experience to back this up. Criminal usually has significantly better hours and fewer deadlines than the civil side.

I am the poster who made the comparison between the civil and criminal sections within the DOJ Antitrust Division. Yes have plenty of experience with both at DOJ. My comments weren't about the hours or deadlines; they were comparisons along other dimensions including the overall direction of the two programs over the past 7 years. Things like management, morale, and culture are important factors to consider.

Hi OP,
I was you, except I was at Main Justice at a litigating component and capped out. I also was around 10 years, and received PSLF which allowed me to consider the private sector.

I ran rough calculations, comparing working at a finreg (SEC, CFPB, FDIC) , along with in-house roles, and with offers from multiple finregs and companies, I made the decision to go in-house at a FAANG in an investigations type role.

When considering my decision the primary point was salary, type of work, and ability to grow (salary and career). If I went to a finreg, I would have started in the low-200s, with a cap of around 240-250 (and in a HCOL you could probably get to that in a 5-7 years). The pension is always a driving factor, and with finregs usually covering the cost of your contribution, it would no longer by the FERS-FRAE 4.4% hit. Health insurance was similar for both (with the exception of FEHB into retirement). 401k/TSP matching was also similar, except FAANG has a backdoor roth that you can stuff around 40k a year for tax free growth.

By comparison, I was offered an in-house role for approx. 400k TC, and while a decent amount is in equity, the role was a relatively established team with room for growth. I enjoy the work, my colleagues, WLB, and pay, but I do miss representing the U.S. govt, and the responsibility and power it brings.

I think it comes down to whether you want more money and the opportunity to make more money (in-house) in a faster paced environment, or you want to continue representing the gov (finreg), doing "fun" work for half the salary, at a stable position with a guaranteed pension.

To the former main justice person turned FAANG In-House Counsel:

This is a very insightful post. Thank you. What are your thoughts on layoffs or/and just the general downturn in the economy -- especially as it relates to the technology sector?

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 07, 2023 1:35 pm

Re: former main justice person turned FAANG In-House Counsel: This is a very insightful post. Thank you. What are your thoughts on layoffs or/and just the general downturn in the economy -- especially as it relates to the technology sector?

Layoffs are always tough in challenging economic times. What I have seen is that Legal is usually not impacted unless the business is downsizing/removing their client team. Legal is a bit different than the business in that they are often slow to expand, so they don't suffer from bloat. I didn't know anyone in Legal that was impacted in the recent layoffs at my company.

While the economy is at a downturn, it can also be a boon if you receive refreshers at a low price. I received a significant amount of refreshers when the stock was very low, and with the recent run, will bring my TC higher than I (or the company) anticipated.

I think in 2024 we will see a slow resume in hiring for most tech companies.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 07, 2023 1:49 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 07, 2023 1:35 pm

Re: former main justice person turned FAANG In-House Counsel: This is a very insightful post. Thank you. What are your thoughts on layoffs or/and just the general downturn in the economy -- especially as it relates to the technology sector?

Layoffs are always tough in challenging economic times. What I have seen is that Legal is usually not impacted unless the business is downsizing/removing their client team. Legal is a bit different than the business in that they are often slow to expand, so they don't suffer from bloat. I didn't know anyone in Legal that was impacted in the recent layoffs at my company.

While the economy is at a downturn, it can also be a boon if you receive refreshers at a low price. I received a significant amount of refreshers when the stock was very low, and with the recent run, will bring my TC higher than I (or the company) anticipated.

I think in 2024 we will see a slow resume in hiring for most tech companies.

Got it. Thanks!