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Not common at all, ever, never heard of this, ever. My instinct is that even asking would be audaciously inappropriate and you'll damage your reputation by doing it.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Jul 07, 2023 11:39 amI am a law student with multiple offers from top firms. I think I know which one I want to choose, but I was wondering if it would be bad to ask for a signing bonus since I have multiple offer. That was common in the industry I was in before going to law school. Unsure how common it is in the legal industry -- especially as a summer associate. I'm afraid they'd just tell me to kick rocks lol.
The thing about first and second year associates not being profitable is mostly not true anymore, and hasnt been for several years. (But yeah, summers for sure. they obviously dont make the firm any money).Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Jul 12, 2023 9:25 pmYou're right about PPP growing faster than associate salaries, so the latter should be raised to keep up somewhat with the former. But giving out bonuses to summer associates doesn't make a ton of sense since summers are largely fungible commodities. In truth, the summer associate salary and the first & second year salaries are essentially a bonus because they're being paid to people who aren't generating much revenue in return.
Well no one really earns a signing bonus at the time they receive it. But they may be expected to earn it back for the firm and then some. Come to think of it, even fast food restaurants and trucking companies offer signing bonuses.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Jul 12, 2023 9:59 pmThe thing about first and second year associates not being profitable is mostly not true anymore, and hasnt been for several years. (But yeah, summers for sure. they obviously dont make the firm any money).Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Jul 12, 2023 9:25 pmYou're right about PPP growing faster than associate salaries, so the latter should be raised to keep up somewhat with the former. But giving out bonuses to summer associates doesn't make a ton of sense since summers are largely fungible commodities. In truth, the summer associate salary and the first & second year salaries are essentially a bonus because they're being paid to people who aren't generating much revenue in return.
If you are at most Biglaw firms your "signing bonus" is what basically amounts to getting paid $4000 a week to go to camp.asdfasdf2 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 12, 2023 9:07 pmWhile this is uncommon, it is maybe worth questioning why this is uncommon for us as an industry. We make partners many times more than they pay us. PPP also continues to grow at a faster rate than associate salaries. While associate supply is not tight per se, it is also not an unlimited pool either, especially when accounting for practice area differentiation. Maybe signing bonuses would make some sense, at least when the candidate is more than a generalist KJD?
Eh, there's still a bit of an arms race among summer programs. Because of the oligopolistic salary-matching among big firms, the summer program is (as you note) a load-bearing aspect of competition much like a signing bonus. If, say, DPW's summer program became less pleasant, they'd start losing more 2Ls to Paul Comma Weiss et al.Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote: ↑Thu Jul 13, 2023 12:11 amNowadays since most kids don't have an option other than the firm they summered with, a firm could pretty much whip you like a mule with no consequences, but the trips on a partner's jetski persist like some sort of champagne appendix because most firms are terrified of changing anything at all about the way they operate.
Are there firms where summer associates actually make more money than is spent on them?asdfasdf2 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 12, 2023 9:07 pmWhile this is uncommon, it is maybe worth questioning why this is uncommon for us as an industry. We make partners many times more than they pay us. PPP also continues to grow at a faster rate than associate salaries. While associate supply is not tight per se, it is also not an unlimited pool either, especially when accounting for practice area differentiation. Maybe signing bonuses would make some sense, at least when the candidate is more than a generalist KJD?
sighted: Quinn associate just now realizing their firm is bottom of the attractiveness totem poleAnonymous User wrote: ↑Thu Jul 13, 2023 8:33 amQuinn’s summers work. Also “paraded around by attractive recruiting assistants??””
Cravath?Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote: ↑Thu Jul 13, 2023 12:11 amIf you are at most Biglaw firms your "signing bonus" is what basically amounts to getting paid $4000 a week to go to camp.asdfasdf2 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 12, 2023 9:07 pmWhile this is uncommon, it is maybe worth questioning why this is uncommon for us as an industry. We make partners many times more than they pay us. PPP also continues to grow at a faster rate than associate salaries. While associate supply is not tight per se, it is also not an unlimited pool either, especially when accounting for practice area differentiation. Maybe signing bonuses would make some sense, at least when the candidate is more than a generalist KJD?
Our summers sweat out a hangover in some worthless morning meeting, paraded around by attractive recruiting assistants whose job is to be pleasant to them, get free lunch every day, bill like three hours a day on the least important thing we can possibly come up with, bullshit around in each other's offices for the rest of the afternoon, and every now and then go rock climbing or something. Frightened as they all may be, for the large majority of them the only possible consequential fuckup is asking the managing partner's wife to do a little spin. One day my biggest concern was getting back from the Hamptons in time to get to the firm's suite at a concert. My firm joked that the hierarchy went associates, counsel, partners, summers, and I privately joked that the smart thing to do would be to skip the full-time offer in favor of putting on a fake mustache and trying again for next year.
It's absurd that it even exists but like everything else in this perpetually antiquated industry it's a relic from back when students would have tons of different options and thus needed to be pitched on coming to Firm X (and so they can tell all their friends on the fence too). Nowadays since most kids don't have an option other than the firm they summered with, a firm could pretty much whip you like a mule with no consequences, but the trips on a partner's jetski persist like some sort of champagne appendix because most firms are terrified of changing anything at all about the way they operate.
I work at Quinn and I'm pretty hot.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Thu Jul 13, 2023 10:49 amsighted: Quinn associate just now realizing their firm is bottom of the attractiveness totem poleAnonymous User wrote: ↑Thu Jul 13, 2023 8:33 amQuinn’s summers work. Also “paraded around by attractive recruiting assistants??””
The question isn't whether summers work. Its whether summers bill (and the client pays). Good luck with thatAnonymous User wrote: ↑Thu Jul 13, 2023 8:33 amQuinn’s summers work. Also “paraded around by attractive recruiting assistants??””
Can confirm--was a biglaw summer, did notice the recruiting assistants were attractive.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Thu Jul 13, 2023 8:33 amQuinn’s summers work. Also “paraded around by attractive recruiting assistants??””
I personally billed to a client a few times. A partner specifically told me to bill to the client matter number instead of the generic summer program one. I always wondered why this guy wanted me to do that and if it actually went to the client.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Thu Jul 13, 2023 12:13 pmThe question isn't whether summers work. Its whether summers bill (and the client pays). Good luck with thatAnonymous User wrote: ↑Thu Jul 13, 2023 8:33 amQuinn’s summers work. Also “paraded around by attractive recruiting assistants??””