Page 1 of 2
NYC DPW v. S&C
Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2023 10:37 pm
by Anonymous User
I am very lucky to be in the position of picking but I would appreciate any advice! I am choosing between summer offers in NYC at DPW or S&C. Just from my interviewing experience, I got along with the people at DPW
much more but S&C's general practice model is very appealing. Overall, I'm leaning towards transactional practice, either in restructuring or finance but this could change. I recognize it'll be intense regardless but I really do want to be a little less miserable
Thoughts? Thanks!
Re: NYC DPW v. S&C
Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2023 10:52 am
by The Lsat Airbender
It sounds like you strongly prefer DPW. What's giving you pause, aside from the rotation model?
Re: NYC DPW v. S&C
Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2023 10:58 am
by Anonymous User
DPW is nicer people, a better commute from almost anywhere, and a much better culture. If you want finance or bankruptcy you'll get it.
Re: NYC DPW v. S&C
Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2023 11:38 am
by The Lsat Airbender
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Thu Jul 06, 2023 10:58 am
DPW is nicer people, a
better commute from almost anywhere, and a much better culture. If you want finance or bankruptcy you'll get it.
idk, downtown is easier from most of Brooklyn and there are large chunks of Manhattan (or NJ) where both firms are about equally easy to commute to. This probably depends on whether you want to spend a few years as an associate in your 20's or if you're trying to commute in from the suburbs
Agree on the other points
Re: NYC DPW v. S&C
Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2023 11:52 am
by Anonymous User
The people going to S&C from my school were so insufferable that I literally didn't even bid it. Got a great vibe from DPW. Feels like an easy choice to me.
Re: NYC DPW v. S&C
Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2023 10:30 pm
by confusedandscared
The Lsat Airbender wrote: ↑Thu Jul 06, 2023 10:52 am
It sounds like you strongly prefer DPW. What's giving you pause, aside from the rotation model?
I think only because of the generalist practice because I'm undecided!
Re: NYC DPW v. S&C
Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2023 9:54 am
by Anonymous User
If you want to do either restructuring or finance then DPW is a no brainer. Way better deal flow, smarter and nicer partners and senior associates. You also do rotations at DPW so you can still get a bit of broad exposure albeit less than the generalist practice at S&C
Re: NYC DPW v. S&C
Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2023 10:21 am
by Anonymous User
I've worked at both of these firms. I preferred the general practice approach over the rotational approach, but the rotation is short lived and I wouldn't base your decision only on that.
Don't judge the firm's lawyers by the people you interviewed with, what your law school classmates are saying, or over-generalized statements such as the above poster's "DPW has nicer people" (what??) - these are generally inaccurate takes.
The people you work with and the "culture" of these firms will vary based on what practice group you join. For example, your experience in S&C M&A will be very different from an associate in S&C FIG or S&C CapM. The "culture" in these groups is different to the extent that it is like working at two different firms. Likewise at DPW. Your experience will also be highly dependent on whether you form good working relationships with reasonable partners, or if you just float through the generic staffing system (bad idea) and get staffed with partners who are less desirable to work for and thus can't staff their deals with associates that always want to work with them.
The difference between working in midtown and downtown, as odd as that sounds, is also something you might consider. Working in downtown is an underrated benefit, particularly if you live in Brooklyn or New Jersey.
If I had to start over and choose again, I'd choose S&C, but neither is a bad choice.
Re: NYC DPW v. S&C
Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2023 10:58 am
by Anonymous User
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Jul 07, 2023 10:21 am
I've worked at both of these firms. I preferred the general practice approach over the rotational approach, but the rotation is short lived and I wouldn't base your decision only on that.
Don't judge the firm's lawyers by the people you interviewed with, what your law school classmates are saying, or over-generalized statements such as the above poster's "DPW has nicer people" (what??) - these are generally inaccurate takes.
The people you work with and the "culture" of these firms will vary based on what practice group you join. For example, your experience in S&C M&A will be very different from an associate in S&C FIG or S&C CapM. The "culture" in these groups is different to the extent that it is like working at two different firms. Likewise at DPW. Your experience will also be highly dependent on whether you form good working relationships with reasonable partners, or if you just float through the generic staffing system (bad idea) and get staffed with partners who are less desirable to work for and thus can't staff their deals with associates that always want to work with them.
The difference between working in midtown and downtown, as odd as that sounds, is also something you might consider. Working in downtown is an underrated benefit, particularly if you live in Brooklyn or New Jersey.
If I had to start over and choose again, I'd choose S&C, but neither is a bad choice.
Interested to hear more about the benefits of downtown over midtown but for someone planning on staying in Manhattan. Also weighing an offer from a firm with an office in Hudson Yards. Thank you!
Re: NYC DPW v. S&C
Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2023 2:38 pm
by Anonymous User
Agree with the "firms are 800+ people, claims about overarching culture are probably too broad" takes.
Also been at both firms - painting as broadly as I feel like I can, the vibes at DPW were more social, while the vibes are S&C were a bit more reserved. Not that either was inherently bad, just maybe a slight guide on self sorting into what you are looking for into a work place. Even still, there were plenty of quieter people at DPW and plenty of people who went out together at S&C.
Kinda mirrored who went to each from my law school - DPW crowd was a lot more social, S&C people were more nerdy. Plenty of annoying people in both groups.
Broad brush culture is going to have way less influence on your experience as an associate than the firm's staffing system tho
Re: NYC DPW v. S&C
Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2023 9:07 pm
by Anonymous User
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Jul 07, 2023 10:21 am
I've worked at both of these firms. I preferred the general practice approach over the rotational approach, but the rotation is short lived and I wouldn't base your decision only on that.
Don't judge the firm's lawyers by the people you interviewed with, what your law school classmates are saying, or over-generalized statements such as the above poster's "DPW has nicer people" (what??) - these are generally inaccurate takes.
The people you work with and the "culture" of these firms will vary based on what practice group you join. For example, your experience in S&C M&A will be very different from an associate in S&C FIG or S&C CapM. The "culture" in these groups is different to the extent that it is like working at two different firms. Likewise at DPW. Your experience will also be highly dependent on whether you form good working relationships with reasonable partners, or if you just float through the generic staffing system (bad idea) and get staffed with partners who are less desirable to work for and thus can't staff their deals with associates that always want to work with them.
The difference between working in midtown and downtown, as odd as that sounds, is also something you might consider. Working in downtown is an underrated benefit, particularly if you live in Brooklyn or New Jersey.
If I had to start over and choose again, I'd choose S&C, but neither is a bad choice.
Obviously it is going to vary from individual lawyer to lawyer, and DPW has some ass holes and S&C has some super nice people but I feel pretty comfortable saying that DPW does have nicer people overall than S&C—this is pretty well known and is a naturally byproduct of the way these firms hire. DPW puts way more focus on the callback interview and S&C puts way more focus on grades. I think this is especially true among the junior associates.
Re: NYC DPW v. S&C
Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2023 8:55 am
by Anonymous User
If you’re actually interested in RX and finance, then DPW makes more sense. S&C isn’t on the same level in those practices.
Re: NYC DPW v. S&C
Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2023 12:07 pm
by Anonymous User
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Jul 07, 2023 10:21 am
I've worked at both of these firms. I preferred the general practice approach over the rotational approach, but the rotation is short lived and I wouldn't base your decision only on that.
Don't judge the firm's lawyers by the people you interviewed with, what your law school classmates are saying, or over-generalized statements such as the above poster's "DPW has nicer people" (what??) - these are generally inaccurate takes.
The people you work with and the "culture" of these firms will vary based on what practice group you join. For example, your experience in S&C M&A will be very different from an associate in S&C FIG or S&C CapM. The "culture" in these groups is different to the extent that it is like working at two different firms. Likewise at DPW. Your experience will also be highly dependent on whether you form good working relationships with reasonable partners, or if you just float through the generic staffing system (bad idea) and get staffed with partners who are less desirable to work for and thus can't staff their deals with associates that always want to work with them.
The difference between working in midtown and downtown, as odd as that sounds, is also something you might consider. Working in downtown is an underrated benefit, particularly if you live in Brooklyn or New Jersey.
If I had to start over and choose again, I'd choose S&C, but neither is a bad choice.
I was only referring to the folks at DPW and S&C at the finance / restructuring groups. I’ve worked across from / with them as a lawyer and in non-lawyer roles. DPW’s restructuring team is sharper and just so much more pleasant to deal with, especially the partners. If I’m gonna spend 12 hours a day on a deal with either DPW or S&C I will take Damien / Eli over Andy Dieterich without a doubt.
Re: NYC DPW v. S&C
Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2023 2:39 pm
by Anonymous User
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Jul 08, 2023 12:07 pm
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Jul 07, 2023 10:21 am
I've worked at both of these firms. I preferred the general practice approach over the rotational approach, but the rotation is short lived and I wouldn't base your decision only on that.
Don't judge the firm's lawyers by the people you interviewed with, what your law school classmates are saying, or over-generalized statements such as the above poster's "DPW has nicer people" (what??) - these are generally inaccurate takes.
The people you work with and the "culture" of these firms will vary based on what practice group you join. For example, your experience in S&C M&A will be very different from an associate in S&C FIG or S&C CapM. The "culture" in these groups is different to the extent that it is like working at two different firms. Likewise at DPW. Your experience will also be highly dependent on whether you form good working relationships with reasonable partners, or if you just float through the generic staffing system (bad idea) and get staffed with partners who are less desirable to work for and thus can't staff their deals with associates that always want to work with them.
The difference between working in midtown and downtown, as odd as that sounds, is also something you might consider. Working in downtown is an underrated benefit, particularly if you live in Brooklyn or New Jersey.
If I had to start over and choose again, I'd choose S&C, but neither is a bad choice.
I was only referring to the folks at DPW and S&C at the finance / restructuring groups. I’ve worked across from / with them as a lawyer and in non-lawyer roles. DPW’s restructuring team is sharper and just so much more pleasant to deal with, especially the partners. If I’m gonna spend 12 hours a day on a deal with either DPW or S&C I will take Damien / Eli over Andy Dieterich without a doubt.
Heard pretty decent things about the other S&C restructuring people (Bromley, mostly) but don't know much about the DPW people
Re: NYC DPW v. S&C
Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2023 4:53 pm
by Anonymous User
Deciding between the two, mainly for FIG (maybe also interested in M&A, but it's a distant second). Does anyone have insight into the relative strengths of/differences between S&C and DPW FIG? I know both have been handling the recent bank crises, maybe with DPW slightly more in the news? TIA!
Re: NYC DPW v. S&C
Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2023 5:04 pm
by Anonymous User
You can't go wrong with either, but I would pick SullCrom. Both are strong in your areas of interest, but you will likely not stay at either firm long-term. SullCrom will open more doors, as it is a much more prestigious law firm, especially in NYC.
Re: NYC DPW v. S&C
Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2023 5:05 pm
by Anonymous User
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Jul 08, 2023 4:53 pm
Deciding between the two, mainly for FIG (maybe also interested in M&A, but it's a distant second). Does anyone have insight into the relative strengths of/differences between S&C and DPW FIG? I know both have been handling the recent bank crises, maybe with DPW slightly more in the news? TIA!
Both are elite groups, make your decision based on whether you preferences between FiDi/Midtown or rotational/generalist
Also, disagree with above - DPW and S&C are completely peer firms in NYC, generally and in FIG. They are both in that "firms that are incredible but not Wachtell" level
Re: NYC DPW v. S&C
Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2023 5:44 pm
by Anonymous User
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Jul 08, 2023 5:05 pm
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Jul 08, 2023 4:53 pm
Deciding between the two, mainly for FIG (maybe also interested in M&A, but it's a distant second). Does anyone have insight into the relative strengths of/differences between S&C and DPW FIG? I know both have been handling the recent bank crises, maybe with DPW slightly more in the news? TIA!
Both are elite groups, make your decision based on whether you preferences between FiDi/Midtown or rotational/generalist
Also, disagree with above - DPW and S&C are completely peer firms in NYC, generally and in FIG. They are both in that "firms that are incredible but not Wachtell" level
SullCrom is much more selective and has better associate talent. It's probably WLKR>SullCrom>>>>DPW
Re: NYC DPW v. S&C
Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2023 5:55 pm
by Anonymous User
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Jul 08, 2023 5:44 pm
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Jul 08, 2023 5:05 pm
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Jul 08, 2023 4:53 pm
Deciding between the two, mainly for FIG (maybe also interested in M&A, but it's a distant second). Does anyone have insight into the relative strengths of/differences between S&C and DPW FIG? I know both have been handling the recent bank crises, maybe with DPW slightly more in the news? TIA!
Both are elite groups, make your decision based on whether you preferences between FiDi/Midtown or rotational/generalist
Also, disagree with above - DPW and S&C are completely peer firms in NYC, generally and in FIG. They are both in that "firms that are incredible but not Wachtell" level
SullCrom is much more selective and has better associate talent. It's probably WLKR>SullCrom>>>>DPW
Do they? They don't list associate honors on their website so i have no idea how that actually looks. Seemed to recruit the same credential bubble of people from my school, with most people having offers at both and making a call based on idiosyncratic preferences
Re: NYC DPW v. S&C
Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2023 6:59 am
by Anonymous User
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Jul 08, 2023 5:44 pm
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Jul 08, 2023 5:05 pm
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Jul 08, 2023 4:53 pm
Deciding between the two, mainly for FIG (maybe also interested in M&A, but it's a distant second). Does anyone have insight into the relative strengths of/differences between S&C and DPW FIG? I know both have been handling the recent bank crises, maybe with DPW slightly more in the news? TIA!
Both are elite groups, make your decision based on whether you preferences between FiDi/Midtown or rotational/generalist
Also, disagree with above - DPW and S&C are completely peer firms in NYC, generally and in FIG. They are both in that "firms that are incredible but not Wachtell" level
SullCrom is much more selective and has better associate talent. It's probably WLKR>SullCrom>>>>DPW
This is an obvious troll.
Re: NYC DPW v. S&C
Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2023 12:29 pm
by Anonymous User
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Jul 09, 2023 6:59 am
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Jul 08, 2023 5:44 pm
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Jul 08, 2023 5:05 pm
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Jul 08, 2023 4:53 pm
Deciding between the two, mainly for FIG (maybe also interested in M&A, but it's a distant second). Does anyone have insight into the relative strengths of/differences between S&C and DPW FIG? I know both have been handling the recent bank crises, maybe with DPW slightly more in the news? TIA!
Both are elite groups, make your decision based on whether you preferences between FiDi/Midtown or rotational/generalist
Also, disagree with above - DPW and S&C are completely peer firms in NYC, generally and in FIG. They are both in that "firms that are incredible but not Wachtell" level
SullCrom is much more selective and has better associate talent. It's probably WLKR>SullCrom>>>>DPW
This is an obvious troll.
Not anon, but I would actually agree. DPW digs deeper into the T6 than SullCrom does. SullCrom is also much more established V5 than DPW
Re: NYC DPW v. S&C
Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2023 1:15 pm
by Anonymous User
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Jul 09, 2023 12:29 pm
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Jul 09, 2023 6:59 am
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Jul 08, 2023 5:44 pm
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Jul 08, 2023 5:05 pm
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Jul 08, 2023 4:53 pm
Deciding between the two, mainly for FIG (maybe also interested in M&A, but it's a distant second). Does anyone have insight into the relative strengths of/differences between S&C and DPW FIG? I know both have been handling the recent bank crises, maybe with DPW slightly more in the news? TIA!
Both are elite groups, make your decision based on whether you preferences between FiDi/Midtown or rotational/generalist
Also, disagree with above - DPW and S&C are completely peer firms in NYC, generally and in FIG. They are both in that "firms that are incredible but not Wachtell" level
SullCrom is much more selective and has better associate talent. It's probably WLKR>SullCrom>>>>DPW
This is an obvious troll.
Not anon, but I would actually agree. DPW digs deeper into the T6 than SullCrom does. SullCrom is also much more established V5 than DPW
And quite a bit leaner, no?
Re: NYC DPW v. S&C
Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2023 2:54 pm
by Anonymous User
Troll accuser anon here. I agree that S&C is more grade selective than DPW, at least at my T6.
I was primarily taking issue with the statement that, in terms of prestige, it goes WLRK > S&C >>>>>> DPW. S&C and DPW are very much peers (and both less prestigious than WLRK, obvs). FWIW I work at S&C.
Re: NYC DPW v. S&C
Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2023 3:01 pm
by lawschoollurker123
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Jul 09, 2023 12:29 pm
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Jul 09, 2023 6:59 am
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Jul 08, 2023 5:44 pm
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Jul 08, 2023 5:05 pm
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Jul 08, 2023 4:53 pm
Deciding between the two, mainly for FIG (maybe also interested in M&A, but it's a distant second). Does anyone have insight into the relative strengths of/differences between S&C and DPW FIG? I know both have been handling the recent bank crises, maybe with DPW slightly more in the news? TIA!
Both are elite groups, make your decision based on whether you preferences between FiDi/Midtown or rotational/generalist
Also, disagree with above - DPW and S&C are completely peer firms in NYC, generally and in FIG. They are both in that "firms that are incredible but not Wachtell" level
SullCrom is much more selective and has better associate talent. It's probably WLKR>SullCrom>>>>DPW
This is an obvious troll.
Not anon, but I would actually agree. DPW digs deeper into the T6 than SullCrom does. SullCrom is also much more established V5 than DPW
lol just because DPW digs deeper into the T6 than S&C doesn't mean that they're not peers. S&C's grade cutoff is known to be more strict, but it's not astronomically high or anything. A 3.6-3.7 at a T14 (depending on which school) would guarantee a CB at S&C which would practically guarantee an offer. Meanwhile no grade will guarantee an offer from DPW. Sure, there are some people at DPW who wouldn't have gotten an offer from S&C, but plenty of DPW people including myself had S&C offers but chose DPW instead for a variety of reasons. So to say that S&C has better associate talent is simply not true. And to say that S&C is much more established than DPW is plainly wrong. Both firms have large institutional clients (S&C/GS, DPW/JPM & MS), and DPW has been at the center of the latest banking crisis (UBS/CS, JPM/First Republic, SVB) just as much, if not more, than S&C.
OP, both firms (along with CSM) are among the best NYC firms in that non-Wachtell tier, although they do have their relative strengths. (e.g., S&C for public M&A, DPW for Cap Markets and Finance) Meet people from both firms, think about what practice areas you may like, and go with your gut. I ended up choosing DPW and don't regret it one bit, but ymmv.
Re: NYC DPW v. S&C
Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2023 3:22 pm
by Anonymous User
Think this discussion actually gives you a good sense of the culture differences between the two. Both are very prestigious, but S&C folks are much more obsessed/concerned with it.
If that suits you, go to S&C. FWIW if you are truly set on finance/restructuring, DPW has the better reputation for those groups.