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In a situation where one of the Texas offices has become extremely appealing for me. Can't help but see all of the hate about black box and Trump.

The main reason I've heard of it making sense is that you want a particular city where other firms don't pay market (all the non-Chicago midwestern offices) or where they do but it's super competitive and JD might be your only option (DC litigation and especially the appellate practice; Miami/Irvine etc. maybe). Neither Texas office fits into that mold. You could do worse, though, assuming you're apathetic or friendly to their political valence.

I don't think they have ever laid someone off.

I almost went to Jones Day some years back. For me, I actually liked the compensation structure. At Jones Day, they don't have bonuses and so the salaries are (in-theory) higher to make up for that.

In practice, we know the salaries are higher but not actually enough to make up for the lack of bonus. But, there are situations where that's still beneficial. For me, I knew I wasn't going to stay long because my goal at the time was to go to government practice. I liked the idea of being able to leave at any time and not leave any money on the table.

Depends on your options. Black box isn't that big of a deal -- you know what "market" is and you know what you're getting paid. If there's a major disparity you can leave, but we don't see a constant flow of JD associates leaving and talking about being underpaid, so it must not be a huge deal.

It is a highly ranked and generally well regarded firm that does big transactions and handles important cases. It is a good place to be from and will open doors should you want to lateral or go in house (or to the government). The political thing is radically overblown and unimportant.

Just go there and leave if it sucks.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 18, 2023 8:02 pm

In a situation where one of the Texas offices has become extremely appealing for me. Can't help but see all of the hate about black box and Trump.

Very stable firm economically. You won’t have to worry at all about layoffs if you provide acceptable work product. The hours expectations are lower than most other solid biglaw firms. Far better partnership prospects compared to most peer firms. And in most secondary markets it pays well above the next best firm. I don’t know enough about Texas to weigh in there but I think people completely sleep on how good a gig Jones Day can be because of the political stuff, which is almost entirely related to a few of their DC partners. I don’t work there but have friends who do.

Curious what ppl would say if a choice is Quinn NY Vs Jones day NY for lit with DOJ as the eventual goal.

'One Firm Worldwide' model lends itself well to seeking and obtaining work from other offices if the practice group in your home office is slow. Cross-office and even cross-border staffings are very common and partners are generally willing to work with associates in other offices, even for big, closely-guarded clients like Riverside/Koch/etc.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 20, 2023 4:45 pm

Curious what ppl would say if a choice is Quinn NY Vs Jones day NY for lit with DOJ as the eventual goal.

Pretty clearly Quinn I think. Maybe I get pushback from people because it seems like a lot of people really don't like Quinn but Quinn is one of the better big firms for pure litigation in NYC and Jones Day NY isn't as major a player in lit.

I don't think either is fantastic if the goal is DOJ main tho. It's also going to depend more on clerkships

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 18, 2023 8:02 pm

In a situation where one of the Texas offices has become extremely appealing for me. Can't help but see all of the hate about black box and Trump.

I'm just so curious. Can you give us an idea (without doxing yourself) about why one of the TX offices has become so appealing?

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 20, 2023 4:45 pm

Curious what ppl would say if a choice is Quinn NY Vs Jones day NY for lit with DOJ as the eventual goal.

Agreed, with one possible exception: JD's Issues & Appeals group is highly regarded, and its current head sits in NY.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 18, 2023 8:02 pm

In a situation where one of the Texas offices has become extremely appealing for me. Can't help but see all of the hate about black box and Trump.

Don't worry about the Trump angle, he's leading in the polls June 2023.
And as Neil Peart wrote "Half the world hates what half the world does every day".

Jones Day in Dallas is hurting. Big partners are poached left and right. Jones Day in Houston is growing significantly, and has a summer class of about 20 summer associates this year.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 25, 2023 3:36 pm

Jones Day in Dallas is hurting. Big partners are poached left and right. Jones Day in Houston is growing significantly, and has a summer class of about 20 summer associates this year.

20 summers would be adding almost 50% to the headcount (currently at 45 attorneys). That seems pretty wild.

LittleRedCorvette wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 20, 2023 12:09 pm

Depends on your options. Black box isn't that big of a deal -- you know what "market" is and you know what you're getting paid. If there's a major disparity you can leave, but we don't see a constant flow of JD associates leaving and talking about being underpaid, so it must not be a huge deal.

Black box is basically code for "you will make below market unless you are considered as superstar and are in a lucrative practice group." That may or may not be meaningful to a given candidate. It wouldn't be my top concern as a 2L. People who go to JD mostly know that at some level and have accepted that as part of the bargain. Most people leave a given firm due to one of these (or a combination thereof):

1) Burnt out, looking for a job with better quality of life
2) A personal conflict with one or more people
3) Lack of work or the correct type of work
4) Some more exciting opportunity that comes their way

Some people will leave below market firms for an opportunity to make market, but usually only in combination with one of the above. The difference between making 80% of market and full market is unlikely to have a material impact on your lifestyle.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 24, 2023 11:49 am

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 20, 2023 4:45 pm

Curious what ppl would say if a choice is Quinn NY Vs Jones day NY for lit with DOJ as the eventual goal.

Agreed, with one possible exception: JD's Issues & Appeals group is highly regarded, and its current head sits in NY.

Yeah, but ~99% of people are not in a position to be considering JD's Issues and Appeals. And if you're queasy about Jones Day's political connections, I don't think Issues & Appeals would necessarily be for you.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 24, 2023 11:49 am

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 20, 2023 4:45 pm

Curious what ppl would say if a choice is Quinn NY Vs Jones day NY for lit with DOJ as the eventual goal.

Agreed, with one possible exception: JD's Issues & Appeals group is highly regarded, and its current head sits in NY.

Does the Jones Day Issues and Appeals group typically pay above market? For example, what is the pay/hours for someone who graduated around magna at HLS and joined after a semi-feeder COA but not a SCOTUS clerkship?

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 27, 2023 4:08 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 24, 2023 11:49 am

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 20, 2023 4:45 pm

Curious what ppl would say if a choice is Quinn NY Vs Jones day NY for lit with DOJ as the eventual goal.

Agreed, with one possible exception: JD's Issues & Appeals group is highly regarded, and its current head sits in NY.

Does the Jones Day Issues and Appeals group typically pay above market? For example, what is the pay/hours for someone who graduated around magna at HLS and joined after a semi-feeder COA but not a SCOTUS clerkship?

I'm guessing that would all be individually negotiated. I'm sure they are paying SCOTUS clerks at least market (plus the giant SCOTUS clerkship bonus of course). Keep in mind that practices like that are loss leaders however. Appellate is typically not super profitable compared to stuff like M&A.