Offer rescinded due to counter
Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2023 9:13 pm
Has anybody ever had an offer rescinded due to making a counter offer for signing bonus or salary? If so, please share details
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Re: Offer rescinded due to counter
Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2023 9:36 pm
Re: Offer rescinded due to counter
Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2023 9:40 pm
If it's a lockstep firm you can't negotiate salary. You can always try for signing and guaranteed end of year true up. Easier through a recruiter.
Re: Offer rescinded due to counter
Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2023 10:05 pm
I didn’t use a recruiter so I was going to try to say something along lines of since no recruiter and mid year, maybe like a signing bonus for 10 % of salary. Thoughts on that?
Re: Offer rescinded due to counter
Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2023 11:21 pm
I wouldn't ask for a signing bonus in this market. It's not 2021 or 2022.
Re: Offer rescinded due to counter
Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2023 6:51 am
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 11:21 pmI wouldn't ask for a signing bonus in this market. It's not 2021 or 2022.
Re: Offer rescinded due to counter
Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2023 7:08 am
What about asking to for a full end of year bonus?Anonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 6:51 amAnonymous User wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 11:21 pmI wouldn't ask for a signing bonus in this market. It's not 2021 or 2022.
Re: Offer rescinded due to counter
Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2023 8:02 am
If you have been on track for meeting the target at your current firm, of course you can ask for this.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 7:08 amWhat about asking to for a full end of year bonus?Anonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 6:51 amAnonymous User wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 11:21 pmI wouldn't ask for a signing bonus in this market. It's not 2021 or 2022.
Re: Offer rescinded due to counter
Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2023 10:01 am
I don't see how being on track (or not) at current firm matters.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 8:02 amIf you have been on track for meeting the target at your current firm, of course you can ask for this.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 7:08 amWhat about asking to for a full end of year bonus?Anonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 6:51 amAnonymous User wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 11:21 pmI wouldn't ask for a signing bonus in this market. It's not 2021 or 2022.
Re: Offer rescinded due to counter
Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2023 10:03 am
It indicates you may be leaving some money off the table by lateraling.LittleRedCorvette wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 10:01 amI don't see how being on track (or not) at current firm matters.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 8:02 amIf you have been on track for meeting the target at your current firm, of course you can ask for this.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 7:08 amWhat about asking to for a full end of year bonus?Anonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 6:51 amAnonymous User wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 11:21 pmI wouldn't ask for a signing bonus in this market. It's not 2021 or 2022.
Re: Offer rescinded due to counter
Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2023 10:40 am
I wonder though how the new firm could possibly find out the associate's latest billing trends. I know somebody who was not at all on track for bonus and the EOY bonus was just something assumed in their lateral offer, which they gladly took. Now, that was early 2022 so maybe things have changed, but my instinct is that EOY bonus is assumed... if they ask directly I imagine one could come up with some non-answer that would leave open the possibility of making bonus (which is almost always "technically" possible, up until a certain point of course).Anonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 10:03 amIt indicates you may be leaving some money off the table by lateraling.LittleRedCorvette wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 10:01 amI don't see how being on track (or not) at current firm matters.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 8:02 amIf you have been on track for meeting the target at your current firm, of course you can ask for this.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 7:08 amWhat about asking to for a full end of year bonus?Anonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 6:51 amAnonymous User wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 11:21 pmI wouldn't ask for a signing bonus in this market. It's not 2021 or 2022.
Re: Offer rescinded due to counter
Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2023 10:52 am
Suppose you lied to your potential new firm that you are on track for hitting the target. I wonder if the potential new firm can actually find that out. How will they know?Lawman1865 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 10:40 amI wonder though how the new firm could possibly find out the associate's latest billing trends. I know somebody who was not at all on track for bonus and the EOY bonus was just something assumed in their lateral offer, which they gladly took. Now, that was early 2022 so maybe things have changed, but my instinct is that EOY bonus is assumed... if they ask directly I imagine one could come up with some non-answer that would leave open the possibility of making bonus (which is almost always "technically" possible, up until a certain point of course).Anonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 10:03 amIt indicates you may be leaving some money off the table by lateraling.LittleRedCorvette wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 10:01 amI don't see how being on track (or not) at current firm matters.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 8:02 amIf you have been on track for meeting the target at your current firm, of course you can ask for this.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 7:08 amWhat about asking to for a full end of year bonus?Anonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 6:51 amAnonymous User wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 11:21 pmI wouldn't ask for a signing bonus in this market. It's not 2021 or 2022.
Same goes for salary. Suppose you have over three years of experience and are technically speaking, a 4th year, but your firm cut your year such that you are getting a 3rd year salary. When asked during an interview, you describe yourself as a 4th year associate and when asked about your current salary you mention the 4th year salary in the current US market scale. How likely is it that the new firm finds out?
Re: Offer rescinded due to counter
Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2023 12:19 pm
Extremely unlikely they'd find out. I would probably do this if I were you. Especially the bonus part.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 10:52 amSuppose you lied to your potential new firm that you are on track for hitting the target. I wonder if the potential new firm can actually find that out. How will they know?Lawman1865 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 10:40 amI wonder though how the new firm could possibly find out the associate's latest billing trends. I know somebody who was not at all on track for bonus and the EOY bonus was just something assumed in their lateral offer, which they gladly took. Now, that was early 2022 so maybe things have changed, but my instinct is that EOY bonus is assumed... if they ask directly I imagine one could come up with some non-answer that would leave open the possibility of making bonus (which is almost always "technically" possible, up until a certain point of course).Anonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 10:03 amIt indicates you may be leaving some money off the table by lateraling.LittleRedCorvette wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 10:01 amI don't see how being on track (or not) at current firm matters.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 8:02 amIf you have been on track for meeting the target at your current firm, of course you can ask for this.
Same goes for salary. Suppose you have over three years of experience and are technically speaking, a 4th year, but your firm cut your year such that you are getting a 3rd year salary. When asked during an interview, you describe yourself as a 4th year associate and when asked about your current salary you mention the 4th year salary in the current US market scale. How likely is it that the new firm finds out?
Re: Offer rescinded due to counter
Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2023 4:47 pm
Just say you expect to get bonus -- hey maybe you'll bill 400 a month from September on.
Re: Offer rescinded due to counter
Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2023 6:44 pm
I still don't see how being on track means "of course you can ask for this." Everyone should ask for it regardless of their pace.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 10:03 amIt indicates you may be leaving some money off the table by lateraling.LittleRedCorvette wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 10:01 amI don't see how being on track (or not) at current firm matters.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 8:02 amIf you have been on track for meeting the target at your current firm, of course you can ask for this.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 7:08 amWhat about asking to for a full end of year bonus?Anonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 6:51 amAnonymous User wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 11:21 pmI wouldn't ask for a signing bonus in this market. It's not 2021 or 2022.
Re: Offer rescinded due to counter
Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2023 10:48 pm
P sure everybody wrongly assumed you were simping for the partners, saying your bonus prospects at the current firm shouldn't have any bearing on whether the new firm thought you were worth it. Kinda still what you're saying, but from the other directionLittleRedCorvette wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 6:44 pmI still don't see how being on track means "of course you can ask for this." Everyone should ask for it regardless of their pace.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 10:03 amIt indicates you may be leaving some money off the table by lateraling.LittleRedCorvette wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 10:01 amI don't see how being on track (or not) at current firm matters.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 8:02 amIf you have been on track for meeting the target at your current firm, of course you can ask for this.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 7:08 amWhat about asking to for a full end of year bonus?Anonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 6:51 amAnonymous User wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 11:21 pmI wouldn't ask for a signing bonus in this market. It's not 2021 or 2022.
Re: Offer rescinded due to counter
Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2023 11:15 am
God damn that kid got rekt. Hope he's fine now, that's definitely harsh on the firm (and on Elie for bootlicking)
Re: Offer rescinded due to counter
Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2023 10:02 pm
Not harsh at all. He showed really poor judgment and the firm responded appropriately.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Apr 22, 2023 11:15 am
God damn that kid got rekt. Hope he's fine now, that's definitely harsh on the firm (and on Elie for bootlicking)
If you want to work at a firm that makes you an offer, you don't respond by telling them your willingness to accept is conditioned on receiving extra benefits and that you want to work elsewhere for a few weeks before starting with them so you can bring in a new client. It shows very low social intelligence/judgment.
Re: Offer rescinded due to counter
Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2023 10:28 pm
Agree that the law student lacks commonsense & shows poor judgment. Law may not be the best career for this student.PaperView wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 10:02 pmNot harsh at all. He showed really poor judgment and the firm responded appropriately.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Apr 22, 2023 11:15 am
God damn that kid got rekt. Hope he's fine now, that's definitely harsh on the firm (and on Elie for bootlicking)
If you want to work at a firm that makes you an offer, you don't respond by telling them your willingness to accept is conditioned on receiving extra benefits and that you want to work elsewhere for a few weeks before starting with them so you can bring in a new client. It shows very low social intelligence/judgment.
Re: Offer rescinded due to counter
Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2023 11:17 pm
Although what he did lacked common sense, he never conditioned his offer acceptance on such things. The firm could have refused his demands and firmly told him to not make such demands going forward.PaperView wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 10:02 pmNot harsh at all. He showed really poor judgment and the firm responded appropriately.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Apr 22, 2023 11:15 am
God damn that kid got rekt. Hope he's fine now, that's definitely harsh on the firm (and on Elie for bootlicking)
If you want to work at a firm that makes you an offer, you don't respond by telling them your willingness to accept is conditioned on receiving extra benefits and that you want to work elsewhere for a few weeks before starting with them so you can bring in a new client. It shows very low social intelligence/judgment.
Re: Offer rescinded due to counter
Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2023 11:28 pm
Yeah they should have just said settle down kid and moved on.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 11:17 pmAlthough what he did lacked common sense, he never conditioned his offer acceptance on such things. The firm could have refused his demands and firmly told him to not make such demands going forward.PaperView wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 10:02 pmNot harsh at all. He showed really poor judgment and the firm responded appropriately.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Apr 22, 2023 11:15 am
God damn that kid got rekt. Hope he's fine now, that's definitely harsh on the firm (and on Elie for bootlicking)
If you want to work at a firm that makes you an offer, you don't respond by telling them your willingness to accept is conditioned on receiving extra benefits and that you want to work elsewhere for a few weeks before starting with them so you can bring in a new client. It shows very low social intelligence/judgment.
Re: Offer rescinded due to counter
Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2023 1:01 am
That seems a bit harsh to me. I can imagine a KJD from a family who doesn't practice law (or business) and who went to a college/law school without proactive career services not having a good sense of the proper boundaries/approaches in law or business.CanadianWolf wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 10:28 pmAgree that the law student lacks commonsense & shows poor judgment. Law may not be the best career for this student.
I'm not sure that I would hold the student 100% responsible (in some vague moral sense) for being eager. Ignorance of business/professional norms + eagerness + anxiety or uncertainty about getting a job seem like enough to result in that kind of message. Directing the question to the partner rather than HR, for example, is at least understandable in the case of someone who has never interacted with an HR department directly or indirectly.
Re: Offer rescinded due to counter
Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2023 3:55 pm
In their defense, it’s a pretty small firm. He was probably gonna be their only summer, so I think it’s more understandable that they didn’t think it was a good fit as opposed to some summer class with dozens of 2Ls.
Re: Offer rescinded due to counter
Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2023 4:37 pm
Strong agreeAnonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Apr 26, 2023 1:01 amThat seems a bit harsh to me. I can imagine a KJD from a family who doesn't practice law (or business) and who went to a college/law school without proactive career services not having a good sense of the proper boundaries/approaches in law or business.CanadianWolf wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 10:28 pmAgree that the law student lacks commonsense & shows poor judgment. Law may not be the best career for this student.
I'm not sure that I would hold the student 100% responsible (in some vague moral sense) for being eager. Ignorance of business/professional norms + eagerness + anxiety or uncertainty about getting a job seem like enough to result in that kind of message. Directing the question to the partner rather than HR, for example, is at least understandable in the case of someone who has never interacted with an HR department directly or indirectly.
Re: Offer rescinded due to counter
Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2023 9:45 pm
I encourage you to reread the entire story. Based on his communication, I cannot imagine any law firm hiring this person. Planning to steal a client from another firm is unprofessional & unethical in this case.NoLongerALurker wrote: ↑Wed Apr 26, 2023 4:37 pmStrong agreeAnonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Apr 26, 2023 1:01 amThat seems a bit harsh to me. I can imagine a KJD from a family who doesn't practice law (or business) and who went to a college/law school without proactive career services not having a good sense of the proper boundaries/approaches in law or business.CanadianWolf wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 10:28 pmAgree that the law student lacks commonsense & shows poor judgment. Law may not be the best career for this student.
I'm not sure that I would hold the student 100% responsible (in some vague moral sense) for being eager. Ignorance of business/professional norms + eagerness + anxiety or uncertainty about getting a job seem like enough to result in that kind of message. Directing the question to the partner rather than HR, for example, is at least understandable in the case of someone who has never interacted with an HR department directly or indirectly.