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Kirkland has begun laying off quite a few lawyers post mid-term reviews

How TLS has fallen; vigorous discussion on Fishbowl for the past few hours.

What’s the tea for those of us not on fishbowl?

Was this an April Fools thing or a real thing. I hate April 1 because suddenly I do not trust anyone or anything on the internet.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 02, 2023 9:53 am

Was this an April Fools thing or a real thing. I hate April 1 because suddenly I do not trust anyone or anything on the internet.

Sounds like it was focused in Dallas and SLC

Not April fools and would recommend incoming summers and future applicants read up on fishbowl threads on this topic. There are simultaneous discussions about Kirkland layoffs in the big law bowl and Kirkland specific bowl.

Can't get access to the Kirkland specific bowl without a Kirkland email right? So incoming associates can't see it. The one thing I'm seeing is that it looks like people are getting shown the door at 18 months. That worries me a little. I thought I was going in with eyes wide open - that it was a place for great training + exit opps albeit with intensity and sharp elbows, but that as long you met a minimum threshold of competent, hardworking, and not doing anything over the top bad socially or downright criminal, you got 3-4 years of runway before the truly vicious up or out started. Is that no longer the case?

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 02, 2023 1:29 pm

Is that no longer the case?

K&E's headcount has nearly doubled in the last five years. Peer firms either stayed relatively stable, or increased by max 30% (e.g., L&W, Gibson). So, no, it's no longer the case.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 02, 2023 1:29 pm

Can't get access to the Kirkland specific bowl without a Kirkland email right? So incoming associates can't see it. The one thing I'm seeing is that it looks like people are getting shown the door at 18 months. That worries me a little. I thought I was going in with eyes wide open - that it was a place for great training + exit opps albeit with intensity and sharp elbows, but that as long you met a minimum threshold of competent, hardworking, and not doing anything over the top bad socially or downright criminal, you got 3-4 years of runway before the truly vicious up or out started. Is that no longer the case?

Absolutely was the case, but looks like they over-levered and are having to walk that back.

Sounds like the incoming associate class is absolutely massive. So it makes sense they would need to clear space, or else if the economy keeps weakening they'll have tons of associates with no work to give them.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 03, 2023 1:34 am

Sounds like the incoming associate class is absolutely massive. So it makes sense they would need to clear space, or else if the economy keeps weakening they'll have tons of associates with no work to give them.

I get the sort of ruthlessness of overleveraging mid-levels and then laying them off when there is no more work, but why hire 500 SAs. So now from like 2023-2024 is like 1/3 of the firm going to be relatively useless/unprofitable first years? What can possibly be a good reason for doing this. The only way I can square this is that Kirkland was in some sort of head rush in 2021 and truly believed we were going to be in an insane deal and bull market for the next 5 years and now when they want to cut back they are forced to do it to mid-levels to avoid the Latham moniker for the next 10 years. If this is true, I have to question why the Kirkland managing committee seems to have a decisionmaking framework akin to the annoying 21-year-old day traders on tiktok.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 03, 2023 8:36 am

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 03, 2023 1:34 am

Sounds like the incoming associate class is absolutely massive. So it makes sense they would need to clear space, or else if the economy keeps weakening they'll have tons of associates with no work to give them.

I get the sort of ruthlessness of overleveraging mid-levels and then laying them off when there is no more work, but why hire 500 SAs. So now from like 2023-2024 is like 1/3 of the firm going to be relatively useless/unprofitable first years? What can possibly be a good reason for doing this. The only way I can square this is that Kirkland was in some sort of head rush in 2021 and truly believed we were going to be in an insane deal and bull market for the next 5 years and now when they want to cut back they are forced to do it to mid-levels to avoid the Latham moniker for the next 10 years. If this is true, I have to question why the Kirkland managing committee seems to have a decisionmaking framework akin to the annoying 21-year-old day traders on tiktok.

I'd imagine it's less of a problem for litigation and rx overall with there being more work generally in those practice areas versus corporate right now and staggering of hires due to clerkships. Really don't understand why they overleveraged so hard for corporate hires.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 03, 2023 8:36 am

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 03, 2023 1:34 am

Sounds like the incoming associate class is absolutely massive. So it makes sense they would need to clear space, or else if the economy keeps weakening they'll have tons of associates with no work to give them.

I get the sort of ruthlessness of overleveraging mid-levels and then laying them off when there is no more work, but why hire 500 SAs. So now from like 2023-2024 is like 1/3 of the firm going to be relatively useless/unprofitable first years? What can possibly be a good reason for doing this. The only way I can square this is that Kirkland was in some sort of head rush in 2021 and truly believed we were going to be in an insane deal and bull market for the next 5 years and now when they want to cut back they are forced to do it to mid-levels to avoid the Latham moniker for the next 10 years. If this is true, I have to question why the Kirkland managing committee seems to have a decisionmaking framework akin to the annoying 21-year-old day traders on tiktok.

The 500 SAs may just be a hedge against the economy turning around faster than expected. SAs won't start until fall of next year, when economy may be picking up again with falling interest rates. Better no work for a bigger class of first years than no work for a big class of mid-levels who cost you almost 2-3x as much.

I don't think Kirkland particular cares about whatever moniker associates may put on it. Everyone here is ignoring the reality that Kirkland will literally always be able to fill up on law school graduates in perpetuity, and the differences between a top HYS grad and a top Wash U grad are negligible when it comes to the actual practice of law, particularly corporate law. Everyone lateraling into Kirkland as a mid-level or partner already probably understands that Kirkland could give a shit about you. Of the 5 people I personally knew who lateraled into Kirkland during 2020-2021, they only lateraled there because they got an insane signing bonus not because they wanted to necessarily stay at Kirkland long term or thought Kirkland was a great culture.

The rx group is already massive as it is. A handful of people are busy at any one time because people hoard work and there’s not enough for everyone to stay consistently busy. People severely underestimate how much work needs to be coming in to keep that many attorneys billing at least 180 or over.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 03, 2023 2:41 pm

The rx group is already massive as it is. A handful of people are busy at any one time because people hoard work and there’s not enough for everyone to stay consistently busy. People severely underestimate how much work needs to be coming in to keep that many attorneys billing at least 180 or over.

Is KE RX really considered massive? They seem relatively small and are only housed in two cities. Seems that for the amount of profit the RX team brings in, they don't have many associates at all.

Yes, it’s considered huge compared to every other comparable rx group (Weil, DPW, PW). There’s roughly 100 associates in the group currently, not including NSPs obviously, and there’s another big class starting in the fall. Cases are often over staffed.

now hearing about cuts to summer budgets and retreats. Can anyone confirm?

X

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 05, 2023 1:46 am

now hearing about cuts to summer budgets and retreats. Can anyone confirm?

Where did you “hear” this? lol

So apparently PEP is actually UP at Kirkland and yet they're still doing lay-offs and cutting budgets and becoming stingy on day-to-day expenses. Fuck this firm.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 05, 2023 3:02 pm

So apparently PEP is actually UP at Kirkland and yet they're still doing lay-offs and cutting budgets and becoming stingy on day-to-day expenses. Fuck this firm.

ya. officially higher than wlrk...

There’s always a hyper focus on Kirkland here. Stealth layoffs are happening now across the V100.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 05, 2023 4:30 pm

There’s always a hyper focus on Kirkland here. Stealth layoffs are happening now across the V100.

Well some may argue Kirkland is the biggest law firm with over 6 billion in revenue and over 3000 lawyers which is why we focus on it so much.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 05, 2023 5:13 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 05, 2023 4:30 pm

There’s always a hyper focus on Kirkland here. Stealth layoffs are happening now across the V100.

Well some may argue Kirkland is the biggest law firm with over 6 billion in revenue and over 3000 lawyers which is why we focus on it so much.

My biglaw firm is doing the same thing but giving 3 months. Kirkland is giving 5 so I don’t see why they’re being called out

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 05, 2023 5:28 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 05, 2023 5:13 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 05, 2023 4:30 pm

There’s always a hyper focus on Kirkland here. Stealth layoffs are happening now across the V100.

Well some may argue Kirkland is the biggest law firm with over 6 billion in revenue and over 3000 lawyers which is why we focus on it so much.

My biglaw firm is doing the same thing but giving 3 months. Kirkland is giving 5 so I don’t see why they’re being called out

Kirkland's being called out because of how obscenely rich the SPs are relative to everyone else at the firm.