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Did people see the tiktok from the CLS/Cravath tiktoker (@enigivensunday) who says the firm gave her an ultimatum to quit influencing or leave the firm? Is there more to the story? Do people think she was actually asked to leave but allowed to say she resigned to save her influencing career...

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 22, 2023 4:47 pm

Did people see the tiktok from the CLS/Cravath tiktoker (@enigivensunday) who says the firm gave her an ultimatum to quit influencing or leave the firm? Is there more to the story? Do people think she was actually asked to leave but allowed to say she resigned to save her influencing career...

I have never heard of this account, but her story seems plausible. Ostensibly she could have just stopped accepting paid partnerships and kept blogging and working at CSM.

Honestly if I was a firm, I would probably fire any associate that was spending substantial amount of time posting on social media about their job to a large audience. Seems like a huge reputational liability at the very least.

I’ll admit that my opinion is probably (definitely) colored by how insufferable I find all of those law/finance influencers to be.

The video https://www.tiktok.com/@enigivensunday/ ... 7143892267

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 22, 2023 5:05 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 22, 2023 4:47 pm

Did people see the tiktok from the CLS/Cravath tiktoker (@enigivensunday) who says the firm gave her an ultimatum to quit influencing or leave the firm? Is there more to the story? Do people think she was actually asked to leave but allowed to say she resigned to save her influencing career...

I have never heard of this account, but her story seems plausible. Ostensibly she could have just stopped accepting paid partnerships and kept blogging and working at CSM.

To me her story sounds like she was asked to leave for flagrantly violating a firm policy... why give up the job instead of paid partnerships less than one year out from law school. She doesn't even have that many followers.

Giving me a flashback to my sojourn in the Cravath OCI suite:

Cravath juniors are waxing poetic about their front page, fabulously public m&a deals and the firm's lux summer program. Attempting to establish my ingroup bona fides, I note that I had seen a peer's social media post about the "make your own sushi roll" event from the summer past, and I could confirm that the array appeared most edifying. The air was sucked out of the room as the associates began mumbling amongst themselves in a fit of facial tics. They turned on me and began pressing for the name of the summer who had made this post, their intentions apparent and far from benign.

I like to imagine they are all at Cooley/Gunderson/etc. telling everyone about how laidback and chill everyone is there compared to their "old firm"...

Her account doesn't give the impression that she's particularly intelligent.

The fact that random Cravath interviewers are aware of her popular TikTok account and the potential for passive income from views is a far cry from Cravath partners discovering that she accepts paid partnerships with clients that they might have conflicts with.

Nor did she seem to take anytime to read through any of her HR paperwork regarding moonlighting and conflicts. Cravath is probably stuck in the past in many ways, but she was flagrantly violating pretty straightforward and obvious policies. And at risk of sounding like an out of touch boomer, it is reasonable to support these policies even without considering potential conflicts and reputational damages. If a law firm pays you $215K, they are justified in requesting that you prioritize your work at the firm instead of seeking additional income elsewhere.

Additionally, her statement suggests she may be considering publicly criticizing Cravath's work, now that she is no longer employed there, which is imprudent to say the least.

My favorite part of this actually is her saying she doesn't think it's a coincidence that she got called into the meeting the day after her birthday. Huh...? Does she think partners give a flying fuck enough to even know when her birthday is, let alone would go out of their way to ruin it or whatever she's implying? Just as you'd expect from a wannabe influencer, total narcissism.

I'm curious to know what you mean by that.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 22, 2023 8:02 pm

Her account doesn't give the impression that she's particularly intelligent.

The fact that random Cravath interviewers are aware of her popular TikTok account and the potential for passive income from views is a far cry from Cravath partners discovering that she accepts paid partnerships with clients that they might have conflicts with.

Nor did she seem to take anytime to read through any of her HR paperwork regarding moonlighting and conflicts. Cravath is probably stuck in the past in many ways, but she was flagrantly violating pretty straightforward and obvious policies. And at risk of sounding like an out of touch boomer, it is reasonable to support these policies even without considering potential conflicts and reputational damages. If a law firm pays you $215K, they are justified in requesting that you prioritize your work at the firm instead of seeking additional income elsewhere.

Additionally, her statement suggests she may be considering publicly criticizing Cravath's work, now that she is no longer employed there, which is imprudent to say the least.

These posts are overly critical of the associate. Doubt cravath’s moonlighting policy was written to clearly forbid social media spon con as opposed to extra firm law practice. Doubt either side were really on notice about this issue. It’s understandable that Cravath asked her to stop and understandable that she decided to resign instead.

BTW, never heard of this person before but her partnerships were pretty big fashion/luxury/skin care brands owned by giant companies. I would guess she was making a good income from them. Would explain why she felt comfortable walking and why Cravath was so alarmed.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 22, 2023 8:31 pm

My favorite part of this actually is her saying she doesn't think it's a coincidence that she got called into the meeting the day after her birthday. Huh...? Does she think partners give a flying fuck enough to even know when her birthday is, let alone would go out of their way to ruin it or whatever she's implying? Just as you'd expect from a wannabe influencer, total narcissism.

This is what I meant above about being overly critical. She was saying she quit on her 28th birthday which corresponds with Romans 8:28:

28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who[a] have been called according to his purpose

It’s garden variety religious talk rather than garden variety narcissism

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 22, 2023 8:02 pm

Her account doesn't give the impression that she's particularly intelligent.

this is an unnecessary attack on the young woman.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 22, 2023 8:02 pm

Nor did she seem to take anytime to read through any of her HR paperwork regarding moonlighting and conflicts. Cravath is probably stuck in the past in many ways, but she was flagrantly violating pretty straightforward and obvious policies.

There really is no foundation in this thread or in her videos for this statement. Again, seriously doubt the policies were straight forward. The situation seems quite novel—very gen z type stuff here.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 22, 2023 5:37 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 22, 2023 5:05 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 22, 2023 4:47 pm

Did people see the tiktok from the CLS/Cravath tiktoker (@enigivensunday) who says the firm gave her an ultimatum to quit influencing or leave the firm? Is there more to the story? Do people think she was actually asked to leave but allowed to say she resigned to save her influencing career...

I have never heard of this account, but her story seems plausible. Ostensibly she could have just stopped accepting paid partnerships and kept blogging and working at CSM.

To me her story sounds like she was asked to leave for flagrantly violating a firm policy... why give up the job instead of paid partnerships less than one year out from law school. She doesn't even have that many followers.

Probably because big law/cravaths were miserable places to work even before all this and being an influencer is more fun and also potentially lucrative? Just a guess.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 22, 2023 9:28 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 22, 2023 8:02 pm

Her account doesn't give the impression that she's particularly intelligent.

this is an unnecessary attack on the young woman.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 22, 2023 8:02 pm

Nor did she seem to take anytime to read through any of her HR paperwork regarding moonlighting and conflicts. Cravath is probably stuck in the past in many ways, but she was flagrantly violating pretty straightforward and obvious policies.

There really is no foundation in this thread or in her videos for this statement. Again, seriously doubt the policies were straight forward. The situation seems quite novel—very gen z type stuff here.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 22, 2023 5:37 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 22, 2023 5:05 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 22, 2023 4:47 pm

Did people see the tiktok from the CLS/Cravath tiktoker (@enigivensunday) who says the firm gave her an ultimatum to quit influencing or leave the firm? Is there more to the story? Do people think she was actually asked to leave but allowed to say she resigned to save her influencing career...

I have never heard of this account, but her story seems plausible. Ostensibly she could have just stopped accepting paid partnerships and kept blogging and working at CSM.

To me her story sounds like she was asked to leave for flagrantly violating a firm policy... why give up the job instead of paid partnerships less than one year out from law school. She doesn't even have that many followers.

Probably because big law/cravaths were miserable places to work even before all this and being an influencer is more fun and also potentially lucrative? Just a guess.

If cravath’s policies are anything like my firm’s, the moonlighting policy is very clear and located right next to the stock trading/insider trading portion of our HR paperwork. No one would take mercy on you if you decided you could start trading stocks in violation of firm policy.

Accepting sponsorships through tiktok is not appreciably any different than accepting sponsorships through YouTube as well.

The underreported angle here is that someone from another firm apparently reported it to CSM, which is an impressive level of petty. I agree that it was pretty clueless on her part to think she could accept sponsorships while working at a firm, and that isn't a good look, but if she chose influencing over being a CSM associate, while that seems shortsighted to risk-averse me, choosing to do something more meaningful to you rather than working at a big firm is something that is generally celebrated here rather than mocked.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 22, 2023 9:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 22, 2023 8:31 pm

My favorite part of this actually is her saying she doesn't think it's a coincidence that she got called into the meeting the day after her birthday. Huh...? Does she think partners give a flying fuck enough to even know when her birthday is, let alone would go out of their way to ruin it or whatever she's implying? Just as you'd expect from a wannabe influencer, total narcissism.

This is what I meant above about being overly critical. She was saying she quit on her 28th birthday which corresponds with Romans 8:28:

28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who[a] have been called according to his purpose

It’s garden variety religious talk rather than garden variety narcissism

Completely agree with this, and with the post saying her choice to do something she finds more fulfilling than Cravath is perfectly fair. I agree she was probably naive about this, but that's not a crime nor particularly narcissistic. (I get the perspective that anyone putting themselves out on TikTok as an influencer is a narcissist, but don't hate the player, hate the game, this is a thing people make a living doing now. If that's a bubble that bursts I'm sure she'll figure out something else.)

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 22, 2023 9:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 22, 2023 8:31 pm

My favorite part of this actually is her saying she doesn't think it's a coincidence that she got called into the meeting the day after her birthday. Huh...? Does she think partners give a flying fuck enough to even know when her birthday is, let alone would go out of their way to ruin it or whatever she's implying? Just as you'd expect from a wannabe influencer, total narcissism.

This is what I meant above about being overly critical. She was saying she quit on her 28th birthday which corresponds with Romans 8:28:

28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who[a] have been called according to his purpose

It’s garden variety religious talk rather than garden variety narcissism

I want to clarify that it is in no way "garden variety religious talk" to assign significance to a chapter/verse number (especially since she apparently picked her favorite verse that had a 28 somewhere on it). It's, at best, the equivalent of talking about your horoscope and, at worst, a really bad attempt at a very dumb form of numerology, which is already extremely dumb.

I also don't think it's overly critical to characterize people who post on TikTok in order to be "influencers" as unintelligent and egotistical.

P.S. Literally none of this needs to be anon. Own your hot takes on this pressing issue.

I know there are other YouTubers/TikTokkers that work or worked for a firm while "moonlighting" as a content creator. I don't think they got into that much issues, but they did genearlly keep things professional. More stuff like "this is what a day of looks like" or "how did I get into law school/law firm X?" This seems more like a beauty guru thing, which could yield some conflicts of interests but also be an image that the firm does not want to be associated with, so I don't think it's crazy, especially for a firm like Cravath. I'd also assume this was an associate they don't particularly cared about.

That being said, I think firms should just let associates be, as long as they're not harming the firm. Especially in this day and age where everyone has some sort of digital footprint. So what if she makes some money?

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 23, 2023 11:11 am

I know there are other YouTubers/TikTokkers that work or worked for a firm while "moonlighting" as a content creator. I don't think they got into that much issues, but they did genearlly keep things professional. More stuff like "this is what a day of looks like" or "how did I get into law school/law firm X?" This seems more like a beauty guru thing, which could yield some conflicts of interests but also be an image that the firm does not want to be associated with, so I don't think it's crazy, especially for a firm like Cravath. I'd also assume this was an associate they don't particularly cared about.

That being said, I think firms should just let associates be, as long as they're not harming the firm. Especially in this day and age where everyone has some sort of digital footprint. So what if she makes some money?

Also unlike many of those other tiktokers, she has tons of huge brand partnerships like Sephora and Olay. Not disclosing those at all to the firm… seems clueless at best.

cavalier1138 wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 23, 2023 11:06 am

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 22, 2023 9:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 22, 2023 8:31 pm

My favorite part of this actually is her saying she doesn't think it's a coincidence that she got called into the meeting the day after her birthday. Huh...? Does she think partners give a flying fuck enough to even know when her birthday is, let alone would go out of their way to ruin it or whatever she's implying? Just as you'd expect from a wannabe influencer, total narcissism.

This is what I meant above about being overly critical. She was saying she quit on her 28th birthday which corresponds with Romans 8:28:

28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who[a] have been called according to his purpose

It’s garden variety religious talk rather than garden variety narcissism

I want to clarify that it is in no way "garden variety religious talk" to assign significance to a chapter/verse number (especially since she apparently picked her favorite verse that had a 28 somewhere on it). It's, at best, the equivalent of talking about your horoscope and, at worst, a really bad attempt at a very dumb form of numerology, which is already extremely dumb.

I also don't think it's overly critical to characterize people who post on TikTok in order to be "influencers" as unintelligent and egotistical.

P.S. Literally none of this needs to be anon. Own your hot takes on this pressing issue.

Whether or not it’s dumb to attribute meaning to a particular bible verse, it’s less dumb than assuming she thought the firm purposely approached her about this on her birthday, which was the original claim.

I also think it is a little overly critical to say that being an influencer in TikTok means you’re unintelligent and egotistical. If you make money off it, it means you’re savvy enough to put the work in and produce a product people want. You may hate that the world is like this, but people who succeed doing this generally work really hard and develop a lot of skills. Fair that a LOT of people aren’t going to succeed, though.

cavalier1138 wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 23, 2023 11:06 am

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 22, 2023 9:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 22, 2023 8:31 pm

My favorite part of this actually is her saying she doesn't think it's a coincidence that she got called into the meeting the day after her birthday. Huh...? Does she think partners give a flying fuck enough to even know when her birthday is, let alone would go out of their way to ruin it or whatever she's implying? Just as you'd expect from a wannabe influencer, total narcissism.

This is what I meant above about being overly critical. She was saying she quit on her 28th birthday which corresponds with Romans 8:28:

28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who[a] have been called according to his purpose

It’s garden variety religious talk rather than garden variety narcissism

I want to clarify that it is in no way "garden variety religious talk" to assign significance to a chapter/verse number (especially since she apparently picked her favorite verse that had a 28 somewhere on it). It's, at best, the equivalent of talking about your horoscope and, at worst, a really bad attempt at a very dumb form of numerology, which is already extremely dumb.

I also don't think it's overly critical to characterize people who post on TikTok in order to be "influencers" as unintelligent and egotistical.

P.S. Literally none of this needs to be anon. Own your hot takes on this pressing issue.

Although I do not feel any particular sympathy towards the TikTokker, this critique is ridiculous. Instead of likening the display of Christianity to numerology and calling it egotistical, you can simply say you are uncomfortable with open displays of Christianity.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 23, 2023 11:23 am

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 23, 2023 11:11 am

I know there are other YouTubers/TikTokkers that work or worked for a firm while "moonlighting" as a content creator. I don't think they got into that much issues, but they did genearlly keep things professional. More stuff like "this is what a day of looks like" or "how did I get into law school/law firm X?" This seems more like a beauty guru thing, which could yield some conflicts of interests but also be an image that the firm does not want to be associated with, so I don't think it's crazy, especially for a firm like Cravath. I'd also assume this was an associate they don't particularly cared about.

That being said, I think firms should just let associates be, as long as they're not harming the firm. Especially in this day and age where everyone has some sort of digital footprint. So what if she makes some money?

Also unlike many of those other tiktokers, she has tons of huge brand partnerships like Sephora and Olay. Not disclosing those at all to the firm… seems clueless at best.

In the social media influencer era, "brand partnerships" might just mean "they sent me a box of some free stuff because I asked." An influencer generally has to have big follower numbers to get actual cash, especially for established brands and not random D2C startups.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 23, 2023 5:08 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 23, 2023 11:23 am

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 23, 2023 11:11 am

I know there are other YouTubers/TikTokkers that work or worked for a firm while "moonlighting" as a content creator. I don't think they got into that much issues, but they did genearlly keep things professional. More stuff like "this is what a day of looks like" or "how did I get into law school/law firm X?" This seems more like a beauty guru thing, which could yield some conflicts of interests but also be an image that the firm does not want to be associated with, so I don't think it's crazy, especially for a firm like Cravath. I'd also assume this was an associate they don't particularly cared about.

That being said, I think firms should just let associates be, as long as they're not harming the firm. Especially in this day and age where everyone has some sort of digital footprint. So what if she makes some money?

Also unlike many of those other tiktokers, she has tons of huge brand partnerships like Sephora and Olay. Not disclosing those at all to the firm… seems clueless at best.

In the social media influencer era, "brand partnerships" might just mean "they sent me a box of some free stuff because I asked." An influencer generally has to have big follower numbers to get actual cash, especially for established brands and not random D2C startups.

True. But the videos say “paid partnership.”

throwawayt14 wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 23, 2023 1:41 pm

cavalier1138 wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 23, 2023 11:06 am

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 22, 2023 9:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 22, 2023 8:31 pm

My favorite part of this actually is her saying she doesn't think it's a coincidence that she got called into the meeting the day after her birthday. Huh...? Does she think partners give a flying fuck enough to even know when her birthday is, let alone would go out of their way to ruin it or whatever she's implying? Just as you'd expect from a wannabe influencer, total narcissism.

This is what I meant above about being overly critical. She was saying she quit on her 28th birthday which corresponds with Romans 8:28:

28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who[a] have been called according to his purpose

It’s garden variety religious talk rather than garden variety narcissism

I want to clarify that it is in no way "garden variety religious talk" to assign significance to a chapter/verse number (especially since she apparently picked her favorite verse that had a 28 somewhere on it). It's, at best, the equivalent of talking about your horoscope and, at worst, a really bad attempt at a very dumb form of numerology, which is already extremely dumb.

I also don't think it's overly critical to characterize people who post on TikTok in order to be "influencers" as unintelligent and egotistical.

P.S. Literally none of this needs to be anon. Own your hot takes on this pressing issue.

Although I do not feel any particular sympathy towards the TikTokker, this critique is ridiculous. Instead of likening the display of Christianity to numerology and calling it egotistical, you can simply say you are uncomfortable with open displays of Christianity.

There is massive diversity of Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, and secularist theology. Inside that diversity is a cross-cutting idea where decent sized amounts of people assign significance to numbers coincidences (or not a coincidence!) within belief systems - but it certainty doesn't define Christianity.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 23, 2023 8:29 pm

throwawayt14 wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 23, 2023 1:41 pm

cavalier1138 wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 23, 2023 11:06 am

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 22, 2023 9:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 22, 2023 8:31 pm

My favorite part of this actually is her saying she doesn't think it's a coincidence that she got called into the meeting the day after her birthday. Huh...? Does she think partners give a flying fuck enough to even know when her birthday is, let alone would go out of their way to ruin it or whatever she's implying? Just as you'd expect from a wannabe influencer, total narcissism.

This is what I meant above about being overly critical. She was saying she quit on her 28th birthday which corresponds with Romans 8:28:

28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who[a] have been called according to his purpose

It’s garden variety religious talk rather than garden variety narcissism

I want to clarify that it is in no way "garden variety religious talk" to assign significance to a chapter/verse number (especially since she apparently picked her favorite verse that had a 28 somewhere on it). It's, at best, the equivalent of talking about your horoscope and, at worst, a really bad attempt at a very dumb form of numerology, which is already extremely dumb.

I also don't think it's overly critical to characterize people who post on TikTok in order to be "influencers" as unintelligent and egotistical.

P.S. Literally none of this needs to be anon. Own your hot takes on this pressing issue.

Although I do not feel any particular sympathy towards the TikTokker, this critique is ridiculous. Instead of likening the display of Christianity to numerology and calling it egotistical, you can simply say you are uncomfortable with open displays of Christianity.

There is massive diversity of Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, and secularist theology. Inside that diversity is a cross-cutting idea where decent sized amounts of people assign significance to numbers coincidences (or not a coincidence!) within belief systems - but it certainty doesn't define Christianity.

Yeah, not sure where anyone got the idea that assigning significance to random biblical verses based on their numbering is actually a "display of Christianity."

cavalier1138 wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 23, 2023 9:19 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 23, 2023 8:29 pm

throwawayt14 wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 23, 2023 1:41 pm

cavalier1138 wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 23, 2023 11:06 am

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 22, 2023 9:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 22, 2023 8:31 pm

My favorite part of this actually is her saying she doesn't think it's a coincidence that she got called into the meeting the day after her birthday. Huh...? Does she think partners give a flying fuck enough to even know when her birthday is, let alone would go out of their way to ruin it or whatever she's implying? Just as you'd expect from a wannabe influencer, total narcissism.

This is what I meant above about being overly critical. She was saying she quit on her 28th birthday which corresponds with Romans 8:28:

28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who[a] have been called according to his purpose

It’s garden variety religious talk rather than garden variety narcissism

I want to clarify that it is in no way "garden variety religious talk" to assign significance to a chapter/verse number (especially since she apparently picked her favorite verse that had a 28 somewhere on it). It's, at best, the equivalent of talking about your horoscope and, at worst, a really bad attempt at a very dumb form of numerology, which is already extremely dumb.

I also don't think it's overly critical to characterize people who post on TikTok in order to be "influencers" as unintelligent and egotistical.

P.S. Literally none of this needs to be anon. Own your hot takes on this pressing issue.

Although I do not feel any particular sympathy towards the TikTokker, this critique is ridiculous. Instead of likening the display of Christianity to numerology and calling it egotistical, you can simply say you are uncomfortable with open displays of Christianity.

There is massive diversity of Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, and secularist theology. Inside that diversity is a cross-cutting idea where decent sized amounts of people assign significance to numbers coincidences (or not a coincidence!) within belief systems - but it certainty doesn't define Christianity.

Yeah, not sure where anyone got the idea that assigning significance to random biblical verses based on their numbering is actually a "display of Christianity."

as a buttoned-up Episcopalian I think it’s a bit woo woo, but it’s certainly not unusual, it’s the sort of thing my mom or aunt would say. Also the inference that she made up her favorite verse is also very silly. Having attachment to certain verses is virtually universal in Christianity, no matter how buttoned-up. And a verse from a particularly beautiful and popular chapter is a perfectly plausible favorite.