Death by Overwork Forum

[Anonymous User]

Interesting read on CNN…

“Workers in the east Asian powerhouse economy already face some of the longest hours in the world – ranking fourth behind only Mexico, Costa Rica and Chile in 2021, according to the OECD – and death by overwork (“gwarosa”) is thought to kill scores of people every year.”

“According to the OECD, South Koreans worked an average 1,915 hours in 2021, far above the OECD average of 1,716 and the American average of 1,767.”

LINK: https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/18/asia/sou ... index.html

Apparently, South Koreans wouldn’t earn a biglaw bonus because they didn’t hit hours. On a side note, they are also dying from death by overwork. Wish biglaw would take note.

[charles117]

worked hrs =/ billed hrs

[Anonymous User]

(duplicate)

[Anonymous User]

Average of 1915 means there's a good chunk of people who worked way more than 1915 hours.

I have a friend who is an attorney at a big law firm in Korea, equivalent to V10 in the US. He/She regularly slept in the office during the first 2-3 years.

[Anonymous User]

(duplicate)

[Anonymous User]

It's a Korean / Japanese thing. Many associates at local biglaw firms in Korea and Japan bill over 2,500 hours a year. I've even heard 3,000 from some folks.

[Anonymous User]

Average of 1915 means there's a good chunk of people who worked way more than 1915 hours.

I have a friend who is an attorney at a big law firm in Korea, equivalent to V10 in the US. He/She regularly slept in the office during the first 2-3 years.

Yeah, I was going to say this. Plus, the article isn't saying that working 1,915 hrs is killing people; it's that the average is 1,915 hrs in a society where people are dying from overwork.

[butonawednesday]

Chapter 8 is titled “Rice Paddies and Math Tests.” Here Gladwell looks at the stereotype we hold that people of Asian descent are better at doing math than those of us in western cultures. Our long-held belief is that they are just inherently smarter in this respect. But Gladwell points instead to two factors that are important but widely overlooked in this assumption. One is how diligent a rice farmer must be in order to successfully raise a crop of rice. The work is constant and meticulous, which shows a cultural attention to the value of hard work.

Every four years, the Trends in Mathematics and Science Study (TIMSS) tests students around the world and ranks different nations by proficiency in math and science. An accompanying questionnaire collects data about test takers: their parents’ educational level, their views about math, and so on. Many students do not finish the questionnaire, because it is long and tedious. Erling Boe, an educational researcher at the University of Pennsylvania, discovered that ranking countries by how many questionnaire questions their students answered produces the exact same ranking as the actual TIMSS test. The countries at the top of both lists are Singapore, South Korea, China, Hong Kong, and Japan. In a footnote, Gladwell explains that studies have been done for the different regions of China, and those that did not descend from wet-rice farmers are not as successful.

Hard work features significantly in individual success, and the value an individual places on hard work is often driven by culture. Gladwell tells a story of a math professor and a student trying to solve a problem. Though the student struggles, she doesn’t give up for 22 minutes. When she finally gets it, she knows she will remember the concept. Her hard work led to success. This story helps Gladwell make the point that success is the result of working through a struggle and not giving up when many others would. He asserts that persistence is a cultural trait. Gladwell emphasizes the cultural belief in hard work, comparing the work of a rice farmer to the garment work of a Jewish immigrant, noting that both are meaningful. He states that both are complex, autonomous and show a relationship between effort and reward. Among the many other factors the author has showcased, success results from working hard at something an individual finds meaningful.

Closing sentence of Chapter 8, Outliers

They are the kinds of places where, for hundreds of
years, penniless peasants, slaving away in the rice paddies
three thousand hours a year, said things to one another
like "No one who can rise before dawn three hundred
sixty days a year fails to make his family rich."

[butonawednesday]

The students didn't need to take the math and science tests.

All we needed to do was see how many questions they answered on the questionnaire and then look at the background of the students.

We only needed to see how persistent they were. How long they would do a task without giving up.

The persistence correlates perfectly with the results of the math/science test.

No need to give the math/science test.

We have our answers. Just by seeing how many questions they answered on the questionnaire.