Stupid Q - what should my salary be? Forum

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
Anonymous User
Posts: 428123
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Stupid Q - what should my salary be?

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Mar 16, 2023 5:35 pm

I am bit confused so going to ask this stupid question.
I lateralled and joined my firm as 5th year associate back in October 2022. I didn't think too much but what should my salary upon joining should have been on the biglaw scale? And what should it be right now?
What class year am I?

(I am just really confused with the discrepancy among the class year and associate year and pay year....)

Anonymous User
Posts: 428123
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Stupid Q - what should my salary be?

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Mar 16, 2023 9:08 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Mar 16, 2023 5:35 pm
I am bit confused so going to ask this stupid question.
I lateralled and joined my firm as 5th year associate back in October 2022. I didn't think too much but what should my salary upon joining should have been on the biglaw scale? And what should it be right now?
What class year am I?

(I am just really confused with the discrepancy among the class year and associate year and pay year....)
I'm assuming you're talking about market? You can look it up by class year and by actual year (i.e., historically): https://www.biglawinvestor.com/biglaw-salary-scale/. There hasn't been movement in 2023, so the 2023 numbers are the same as 2022.

Generally people start as a "stub year" in the fall after graduation. They make the same as first years, and then, come New Years, they start their actual first year. If all goes well (more like if things don't go to shit), you hit the next New Years, collect your first year bonus, pass go, and you bump up to second year pay. Rinse and repeat every year. They may call you a 2nd year a bit earlier (i.e., after you've technically been at the firm for 2 years, rather than waiting an extra month or two for the new year), but I don't know any firm that doesn't raise your class year for pay purposes other than on January 1.

If you were a 5th year in October '22 then you should have been making $345k base. You became a 6th year on January 1 this year and should now be making $370k base.

Anonymous User
Posts: 428123
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Stupid Q - what should my salary be?

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Mar 17, 2023 12:45 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Mar 16, 2023 9:08 pm
They may call you a 2nd year a bit earlier (i.e., after you've technically been at the firm for 2 years, rather than waiting an extra month or two for the new year), but I don't know any firm that doesn't raise your class year for pay purposes other than on January 1.

If you were a 5th year in October '22 then you should have been making $345k base. You became a 6th year on January 1 this year and should now be making $370k base.
Thanks - so this is where I am confused. Normally, should I have become a 6th year on January 1, 2023? Or because I joined as 5th on October 22, it is normal for me to continue to be a 5th year?

Sackboy

Silver
Posts: 1041
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:14 am

Re: Stupid Q - what should my salary be?

Post by Sackboy » Fri Mar 17, 2023 1:10 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Mar 17, 2023 12:45 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Mar 16, 2023 9:08 pm
They may call you a 2nd year a bit earlier (i.e., after you've technically been at the firm for 2 years, rather than waiting an extra month or two for the new year), but I don't know any firm that doesn't raise your class year for pay purposes other than on January 1.

If you were a 5th year in October '22 then you should have been making $345k base. You became a 6th year on January 1 this year and should now be making $370k base.
Thanks - so this is where I am confused. Normally, should I have become a 6th year on January 1, 2023? Or because I joined as 5th on October 22, it is normal for me to continue to be a 5th year?
Many firms change your class year to the next class year on January 1. This is how things should work for a 2017 graduate:

September 2017 - December 2017 - Stub year
January 2018 - December 2018 - 1st Year Associate
January 2019 - December 2021 - 2nd Year Associate
January 2020 - December 2020 - 3rd Year Associate
January 2021 - December 2021 - 4th Year Associate
January 2022 - December 2022 - 5th Year Associate
January 2023 - December 2023 - 6th Year Associate

In this case, if you were a 2017 graduate who joined joined the firm as a 5th year in October 2022, you should be a 6th year on January 1, 2023. Some firms also move your compensation up on January 1 to match your class year, and some firms wait a month or two (with a mixed bag of those who true you up and those who don't for the gap between January - Feb where you're one class year but getting paid as if you were still the previous class year).

Anonymous User
Posts: 428123
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Stupid Q - what should my salary be?

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Mar 17, 2023 1:41 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Mar 17, 2023 12:45 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Mar 16, 2023 9:08 pm
They may call you a 2nd year a bit earlier (i.e., after you've technically been at the firm for 2 years, rather than waiting an extra month or two for the new year), but I don't know any firm that doesn't raise your class year for pay purposes other than on January 1.

If you were a 5th year in October '22 then you should have been making $345k base. You became a 6th year on January 1 this year and should now be making $370k base.
Thanks - so this is where I am confused. Normally, should I have become a 6th year on January 1, 2023? Or because I joined as 5th on October 22, it is normal for me to continue to be a 5th year?
No, it's not. But some people get held back, and laterals often get held back when they join a new group. Check your offer letter and ask your colleagues when they switch.

Want to continue reading?

Register now to search topics and post comments!

Absolutely FREE!


Anonymous User
Posts: 428123
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Stupid Q - what should my salary be?

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Mar 17, 2023 2:45 pm

The general rule of thumb is calendar year minus graduation year equals class year. So, 23-17=6th year.

But if you're a, say, 2013 grad hired "as a 5th year" to adjust to a new firm/group/whatever, and give you more time to ramp up to potential partnership, then all bets are off. In theory you should have become a 6th year in Jan. But like others have said, maybe the deal was to be a 5th year for 15 months.

Anonymous User
Posts: 428123
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Stupid Q - what should my salary be?

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Mar 17, 2023 3:30 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Mar 16, 2023 9:08 pm
They may call you a 2nd year a bit earlier (i.e., after you've technically been at the firm for 2 years, rather than waiting an extra month or two for the new year), but I don't know any firm that doesn't raise your class year for pay purposes other than on January 1.
I will note that my firm officially does promotions and pay raises September 1st. If we hired someone as a 5th year in October they would theoretically remain in that position until the following September. But I wouldn't expect this outcome in standard biglaw

Anonymous User
Posts: 428123
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Stupid Q - what should my salary be?

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Mar 17, 2023 3:48 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Mar 17, 2023 3:30 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Mar 16, 2023 9:08 pm
They may call you a 2nd year a bit earlier (i.e., after you've technically been at the firm for 2 years, rather than waiting an extra month or two for the new year), but I don't know any firm that doesn't raise your class year for pay purposes other than on January 1.
I will note that my firm officially does promotions and pay raises September 1st. If we hired someone as a 5th year in October they would theoretically remain in that position until the following September. But I wouldn't expect this outcome in standard biglaw
Which firm is this?

Re the nested OP that all firms are Jan, believe that Winston is Feb just as an example. Pretty sure there are a few others with individual quirks.

User avatar
papermateflair

Bronze
Posts: 296
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2019 1:49 pm

Re: Stupid Q - what should my salary be?

Post by papermateflair » Mon Mar 20, 2023 12:03 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Mar 17, 2023 2:45 pm
The general rule of thumb is calendar year minus graduation year equals class year. So, 23-17=6th year.

But if you're a, say, 2013 grad hired "as a 5th year" to adjust to a new firm/group/whatever, and give you more time to ramp up to potential partnership, then all bets are off. In theory you should have become a 6th year in Jan. But like others have said, maybe the deal was to be a 5th year for 15 months.
Agree with this - lateral hiring late in the year can be a bit all over the place with respect to what happens to class year in January. I had a coworker who lateralled in the fall, thought they were taking a couple years cut in class, but then it turned out that the firm kept them as a 3rd year or whatever in January so it was an extra class year they didn't know about. Theoretically that's something everyone should discuss in advance so no one is surprised, but if you didn't do that and your firm held you to the same class year in January, I wouldn't assume it has anything to do with your quality of work, you just should have gotten clarity when you negotiated your class year etc.

Want to continue reading?

Register for access!

Did I mention it was FREE ?


Anonymous User
Posts: 428123
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Stupid Q - what should my salary be?

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Mar 20, 2023 12:20 pm

It can definitely be hit or miss. I have known one lateral who started in November and unexpectedly got a raise Jan 1 (i.e., he didn't negotiate it), and a different lateral who had done a JD/MBA and was automatically credited a year that she didn't expect. My situation was somewhat unusual in that I lateraled and had given notice exactly when special bonuses were made, and I told my main partner at the new firm that I expected to be made whole on it. It took a while and had to get approved, but it did happen. That's all to say there are gray areas and being a squeaky wheel can matter in ambiguous compensation circumstances.

Anonymous User
Posts: 428123
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Stupid Q - what should my salary be?

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Mar 20, 2023 1:14 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2023 12:20 pm
It can definitely be hit or miss. I have known one lateral who started in November and unexpectedly got a raise Jan 1 (i.e., he didn't negotiate it), and a different lateral who had done a JD/MBA and was automatically credited a year that she didn't expect. My situation was somewhat unusual in that I lateraled and had given notice exactly when special bonuses were made, and I told my main partner at the new firm that I expected to be made whole on it. It took a while and had to get approved, but it did happen. That's all to say there are gray areas and being a squeaky wheel can matter in ambiguous compensation circumstances.
I don't think I would really call salary raises "hit or miss" (though you're right that bonuses and JD/MBA hires are a completely different story). That is, in general, I don't think you have to negotiate a raise for Jan 1 if you're being hired at a class-appropriate level. I'm a 2017 grad / 6th year, and if I lateraled anywhere else this year I'd expect a raise to 7th year come Jan 1, period. I'd be hired as a 6th year at the level of all my law school peers, and setting bonuses and practice group changes aside, I don't see firms treating new laterals any differently. That's what it means to be hired as a 6th year.

It would be helpful for OP to share grad year so we can better understand what they mean by "joined my firm as 5th year associate back in October 2022." If OP is a 2017 grad, then it's really not that complicated and a lot of the advice in this thread is irrelevant. Unless the offer letter said OP would be held at 5th year for some reason or based on some contingency, I'd say the firm failing to raise salary in Jan (or Feb for the cheapo firms) is a bad omen. If, on the other hand, OP isn't a 2017 grad, then we can really only guess at what's going on without knowing more.

Register now!

Resources to assist law school applicants, students & graduates.

It's still FREE!


Post Reply Post Anonymous Reply  

Return to “Legal Employment”