Help me choose between WSGR and MoFo (SV) Forum

[Anonymous User]

Current associate at WSGR; would agree, and advise people away from WSGR if they have options at other tech firms. The firm is unbelievably siloed; it's almost impossible to get work from other groups, and often extremely difficult to get work from other partners within your practice group.

Did you take part in the Launch program? I thought the whole idea was to ensure new associates would initially get work from different groups.

[Anonymous User]

Same partner as above.

It has been discussed given that most of our competitors have had layoffs, but the firm decided not to. Things can change, but right now there is no plan to do so.

LOL @ this partner. Was a WSGR associate who was "stealthed." Received a PIP even though I was on pace to bill 1,950 hours. Let's not put lipstick on a pig. I would avoid WSGR at all costs. HR was terrible. Reasons in my PIP were also factually incorrect and despite providing proof, nothing. Terminated. Oh well. Unemployment was nice. Found a better job at higher ranked firm with nicer people. Don't buy into the WSGR kool-aid.

Same partner as above. I am sorry this happened to you, but a single termination isn't evidence of a stealth layoff. Stealth layoffs refer to widespread terminations that aren't disclosed to the rest of the firm.

People get fired for performance at every firm. Many of those people nonetheless bill the bonus target hours. This is not unique to WSGR.

Same "stealthed" WSGR associate as above. Agreed, a single termination isn't evident of a widespread pattern, but, having read through this forum for the past several months, as well as having friends at the firm who have found themselves in a similar position, I would refer to my termination, as well as others I have known in the past several months, as "stealthed."

WSGR markets itself as a firm wherein you can work with great individuals, on "cool" matters, with "groundbreaking" companies. What they don't tell you, however, is that the firm is incredibly siloed. You interview into a group, thinking its "free market," but in reality, that group, and namely, one or two partners, control your destiny. If you don't click, or laugh at their jokes, etc, you will find ourself on the way out. Sure, you can try and reach out to other partners in different groups, but they have to get the sign off from your siloed group partner. So once the waters are tainted, you are done, despite the firm marketing itself as a place where you can "choose your own path." I'd simply avoid.

If you have the choice of working at a different firm, I'd go there. I lateraled in, thinking it was great, boy was I wrong. Thankfully, I've found a much better firm, better reputation and kinder people. Do yourself a favor.

Current associate at WSGR; would agree, and advise people away from WSGR if they have options at other tech firms. The firm is unbelievably siloed; it's almost impossible to get work from other groups, and often extremely difficult to get work from other partners within your practice group.

How long are you tethered to your partner(s)? If you don’t click, wouldn’t they want to pass you to another partner (maybe one they don’t like)?

In my experience, forever. No, because it's biglaw and there's no rationality; they would rather starve you of work for a year and then let you go instead of letting you move to another group or work for other partners.

Former sthealted WSGR associate here. I agree. I tried to talk to other partners. Called, emailed, everything. They said "sure, lets work together." Then, after trying to get the "ok" from my main partner, never returned calls, emails, nothing. Silence. They would rather you wither and die. I lateraled directly into "general corporate." Not part of launch program. I've heard of many sthealted under the guise of PIP.

[Anonymous User]

LOL @ this partner. Was a WSGR associate who was "stealthed." Received a PIP even though I was on pace to bill 1,950 hours. Let's not put lipstick on a pig. I would avoid WSGR at all costs. HR was terrible. Reasons in my PIP were also factually incorrect and despite providing proof, nothing. Terminated. Oh well. Unemployment was nice. Found a better job at higher ranked firm with nicer people. Don't buy into the WSGR kool-aid.

Same partner as above. I am sorry this happened to you, but a single termination isn't evidence of a stealth layoff. Stealth layoffs refer to widespread terminations that aren't disclosed to the rest of the firm.

People get fired for performance at every firm. Many of those people nonetheless bill the bonus target hours. This is not unique to WSGR.

Same "stealthed" WSGR associate as above. Agreed, a single termination isn't evident of a widespread pattern, but, having read through this forum for the past several months, as well as having friends at the firm who have found themselves in a similar position, I would refer to my termination, as well as others I have known in the past several months, as "stealthed."

WSGR markets itself as a firm wherein you can work with great individuals, on "cool" matters, with "groundbreaking" companies. What they don't tell you, however, is that the firm is incredibly siloed. You interview into a group, thinking its "free market," but in reality, that group, and namely, one or two partners, control your destiny. If you don't click, or laugh at their jokes, etc, you will find ourself on the way out. Sure, you can try and reach out to other partners in different groups, but they have to get the sign off from your siloed group partner. So once the waters are tainted, you are done, despite the firm marketing itself as a place where you can "choose your own path." I'd simply avoid.

If you have the choice of working at a different firm, I'd go there. I lateraled in, thinking it was great, boy was I wrong. Thankfully, I've found a much better firm, better reputation and kinder people. Do yourself a favor.

Current associate at WSGR; would agree, and advise people away from WSGR if they have options at other tech firms. The firm is unbelievably siloed; it's almost impossible to get work from other groups, and often extremely difficult to get work from other partners within your practice group.

How long are you tethered to your partner(s)? If you don’t click, wouldn’t they want to pass you to another partner (maybe one they don’t like)?

In my experience, forever. No, because it's biglaw and there's no rationality; they would rather starve you of work for a year and then let you go instead of letting you move to another group or work for other partners.

I've heard of many sthealted under the guise of PIP.

This sounds like associates that were just terminated for not being great at the job or perhaps not given a second chance to be great at the job. This happens in Big Law. It isn't fair, but it happens.

You didn't get put on a PIP because the firm was trimming good associates. If the firm was "stealthing" associates, they chose to fire the associates they felt most comfortable living without.

[Anonymous User]

Same partner as above. I am sorry this happened to you, but a single termination isn't evidence of a stealth layoff. Stealth layoffs refer to widespread terminations that aren't disclosed to the rest of the firm.

People get fired for performance at every firm. Many of those people nonetheless bill the bonus target hours. This is not unique to WSGR.

Same "stealthed" WSGR associate as above. Agreed, a single termination isn't evident of a widespread pattern, but, having read through this forum for the past several months, as well as having friends at the firm who have found themselves in a similar position, I would refer to my termination, as well as others I have known in the past several months, as "stealthed."

WSGR markets itself as a firm wherein you can work with great individuals, on "cool" matters, with "groundbreaking" companies. What they don't tell you, however, is that the firm is incredibly siloed. You interview into a group, thinking its "free market," but in reality, that group, and namely, one or two partners, control your destiny. If you don't click, or laugh at their jokes, etc, you will find ourself on the way out. Sure, you can try and reach out to other partners in different groups, but they have to get the sign off from your siloed group partner. So once the waters are tainted, you are done, despite the firm marketing itself as a place where you can "choose your own path." I'd simply avoid.

If you have the choice of working at a different firm, I'd go there. I lateraled in, thinking it was great, boy was I wrong. Thankfully, I've found a much better firm, better reputation and kinder people. Do yourself a favor.

Current associate at WSGR; would agree, and advise people away from WSGR if they have options at other tech firms. The firm is unbelievably siloed; it's almost impossible to get work from other groups, and often extremely difficult to get work from other partners within your practice group.

How long are you tethered to your partner(s)? If you don’t click, wouldn’t they want to pass you to another partner (maybe one they don’t like)?

In my experience, forever. No, because it's biglaw and there's no rationality; they would rather starve you of work for a year and then let you go instead of letting you move to another group or work for other partners.

I've heard of many sthealted under the guise of PIP.

This sounds like associates that were just terminated for not being great at the job or perhaps not given a second chance to be great at the job. This happens in Big Law. It isn't fair, but it happens.

You didn't get put on a PIP because the firm was trimming good associates. If the firm was "stealthing" associates, they chose to fire the associates they felt most comfortable living without.

Sounds like WSGR HR is using their TLS account. Nope. Confident in the quality of my work and others I knew. Even got compliments from the partners during my year end review. Then boom. Lets just call it what it is. They over hired and they have been trimming like everyone else. They just are choosing not to publish it.

[Anonymous User]

Same "stealthed" WSGR associate as above. Agreed, a single termination isn't evident of a widespread pattern, but, having read through this forum for the past several months, as well as having friends at the firm who have found themselves in a similar position, I would refer to my termination, as well as others I have known in the past several months, as "stealthed."

WSGR markets itself as a firm wherein you can work with great individuals, on "cool" matters, with "groundbreaking" companies. What they don't tell you, however, is that the firm is incredibly siloed. You interview into a group, thinking its "free market," but in reality, that group, and namely, one or two partners, control your destiny. If you don't click, or laugh at their jokes, etc, you will find ourself on the way out. Sure, you can try and reach out to other partners in different groups, but they have to get the sign off from your siloed group partner. So once the waters are tainted, you are done, despite the firm marketing itself as a place where you can "choose your own path." I'd simply avoid.

If you have the choice of working at a different firm, I'd go there. I lateraled in, thinking it was great, boy was I wrong. Thankfully, I've found a much better firm, better reputation and kinder people. Do yourself a favor.

Current associate at WSGR; would agree, and advise people away from WSGR if they have options at other tech firms. The firm is unbelievably siloed; it's almost impossible to get work from other groups, and often extremely difficult to get work from other partners within your practice group.

How long are you tethered to your partner(s)? If you don’t click, wouldn’t they want to pass you to another partner (maybe one they don’t like)?

In my experience, forever. No, because it's biglaw and there's no rationality; they would rather starve you of work for a year and then let you go instead of letting you move to another group or work for other partners.

I've heard of many sthealted under the guise of PIP.

This sounds like associates that were just terminated for not being great at the job or perhaps not given a second chance to be great at the job. This happens in Big Law. It isn't fair, but it happens.

You didn't get put on a PIP because the firm was trimming good associates. If the firm was "stealthing" associates, they chose to fire the associates they felt most comfortable living without.

Sounds like WSGR HR is using their TLS account. Nope. Confident in the quality of my work and others I knew. Even got compliments from the partners during my year end review. Then boom. Lets just call it what it is. They over hired and they have been trimming like everyone else. They just are choosing not to publish it.

The firm didn't terminate anyone arbitrarily. It's possible efforts were made to trim (but if so, I never heard of them and my corporate group never had a single discussion about doing so). Even if that's true, they terminated the people that they agreed were most expendable. That may sound harsh but that's reality. Every associate, particularly junior associates, gets compliments in their reviews.

[Anonymous User]

Current associate at WSGR; would agree, and advise people away from WSGR if they have options at other tech firms. The firm is unbelievably siloed; it's almost impossible to get work from other groups, and often extremely difficult to get work from other partners within your practice group.

How long are you tethered to your partner(s)? If you don’t click, wouldn’t they want to pass you to another partner (maybe one they don’t like)?

In my experience, forever. No, because it's biglaw and there's no rationality; they would rather starve you of work for a year and then let you go instead of letting you move to another group or work for other partners.

I've heard of many sthealted under the guise of PIP.

This sounds like associates that were just terminated for not being great at the job or perhaps not given a second chance to be great at the job. This happens in Big Law. It isn't fair, but it happens.

You didn't get put on a PIP because the firm was trimming good associates. If the firm was "stealthing" associates, they chose to fire the associates they felt most comfortable living without.

Sounds like WSGR HR is using their TLS account. Nope. Confident in the quality of my work and others I knew. Even got compliments from the partners during my year end review. Then boom. Lets just call it what it is. They over hired and they have been trimming like everyone else. They just are choosing not to publish it.

The firm didn't terminate anyone arbitrarily. It's possible efforts were made to trim (but if so, I never heard of them and my corporate group never had a single discussion about doing so). Even if that's true, they terminated the people that they agreed were most expendable. That may sound harsh but that's reality. Every associate, particularly junior associates, gets compliments in their reviews.

Sup Doug

[Anonymous User]

How long are you tethered to your partner(s)? If you don’t click, wouldn’t they want to pass you to another partner (maybe one they don’t like)?

In my experience, forever. No, because it's biglaw and there's no rationality; they would rather starve you of work for a year and then let you go instead of letting you move to another group or work for other partners.

I've heard of many sthealted under the guise of PIP.

This sounds like associates that were just terminated for not being great at the job or perhaps not given a second chance to be great at the job. This happens in Big Law. It isn't fair, but it happens.

You didn't get put on a PIP because the firm was trimming good associates. If the firm was "stealthing" associates, they chose to fire the associates they felt most comfortable living without.

Sounds like WSGR HR is using their TLS account. Nope. Confident in the quality of my work and others I knew. Even got compliments from the partners during my year end review. Then boom. Lets just call it what it is. They over hired and they have been trimming like everyone else. They just are choosing not to publish it.

The firm didn't terminate anyone arbitrarily. It's possible efforts were made to trim (but if so, I never heard of them and my corporate group never had a single discussion about doing so). Even if that's true, they terminated the people that they agreed were most expendable. That may sound harsh but that's reality. Every associate, particularly junior associates, gets compliments in their reviews.

Sup Doug

Doug + WSGR spin machine. They stealthed.

[Anonymous User]

In my experience, forever. No, because it's biglaw and there's no rationality; they would rather starve you of work for a year and then let you go instead of letting you move to another group or work for other partners.

I've heard of many sthealted under the guise of PIP.

This sounds like associates that were just terminated for not being great at the job or perhaps not given a second chance to be great at the job. This happens in Big Law. It isn't fair, but it happens.

You didn't get put on a PIP because the firm was trimming good associates. If the firm was "stealthing" associates, they chose to fire the associates they felt most comfortable living without.

Sounds like WSGR HR is using their TLS account. Nope. Confident in the quality of my work and others I knew. Even got compliments from the partners during my year end review. Then boom. Lets just call it what it is. They over hired and they have been trimming like everyone else. They just are choosing not to publish it.

The firm didn't terminate anyone arbitrarily. It's possible efforts were made to trim (but if so, I never heard of them and my corporate group never had a single discussion about doing so). Even if that's true, they terminated the people that they agreed were most expendable. That may sound harsh but that's reality. Every associate, particularly junior associates, gets compliments in their reviews.

Sup Doug

Doug + WSGR spin machine. They stealthed.

Will be interesting seeing associate numbers drop dramatically in April once the January stealths go off the website.

[Anonymous User]

I've heard of many sthealted under the guise of PIP.

This sounds like associates that were just terminated for not being great at the job or perhaps not given a second chance to be great at the job. This happens in Big Law. It isn't fair, but it happens.

You didn't get put on a PIP because the firm was trimming good associates. If the firm was "stealthing" associates, they chose to fire the associates they felt most comfortable living without.

Sounds like WSGR HR is using their TLS account. Nope. Confident in the quality of my work and others I knew. Even got compliments from the partners during my year end review. Then boom. Lets just call it what it is. They over hired and they have been trimming like everyone else. They just are choosing not to publish it.

The firm didn't terminate anyone arbitrarily. It's possible efforts were made to trim (but if so, I never heard of them and my corporate group never had a single discussion about doing so). Even if that's true, they terminated the people that they agreed were most expendable. That may sound harsh but that's reality. Every associate, particularly junior associates, gets compliments in their reviews.

Sup Doug

Doug + WSGR spin machine. They stealthed.

Will be interesting seeing associate numbers drop dramatically in April once the January stealths go off the website.

Which one of the extremely talented associates that got "stealthed" will post those numbers for the thread?

[Anonymous User]

Current associate at WSGR; there were definitely substantial stealth layoffs, and hours are low across the board. I would not join WSGR given what's going on right now.

I am a partner at WSGR and I will note that there have not been "stealth layoffs" - there have been, in my group, performance based terminations. This happens at every firm unfortunately - its a tough job.

I think people forget that people do get fired for performance at law firms. Just because people get fired outside of an announced mass layoff does not mean a firm conducted a "stealth layoff".

Do you think there will be actual layoffs?

Same partner as above.

It has been discussed given that most of our competitors have had layoffs, but the firm decided not to. Things can change, but right now there is no plan to do so.

LOL @ this partner. Was a WSGR associate who was "stealthed." Received a PIP even though I was on pace to bill 1,950 hours. Let's not put lipstick on a pig. I would avoid WSGR at all costs. HR was terrible. Reasons in my PIP were also factually incorrect and despite providing proof, nothing. Terminated. Oh well. Unemployment was nice. Found a better job at higher ranked firm with nicer people. Don't buy into the WSGR kool-aid.

Same partner as above. I am sorry this happened to you, but a single termination isn't evidence of a stealth layoff. Stealth layoffs refer to widespread terminations that aren't disclosed to the rest of the firm.

People get fired for performance at every firm. Many of those people nonetheless bill the bonus target hours. This is not unique to WSGR.

Same "stealthed" WSGR associate as above. Agreed, a single termination isn't evident of a widespread pattern, but, having read through this forum for the past several months, as well as having friends at the firm who have found themselves in a similar position, I would refer to my termination, as well as others I have known in the past several months, as "stealthed."

WSGR markets itself as a firm wherein you can work with great individuals, on "cool" matters, with "groundbreaking" companies. What they don't tell you, however, is that the firm is incredibly siloed. You interview into a group, thinking its "free market," but in reality, that group, and namely, one or two partners, control your destiny. If you don't click, or laugh at their jokes, etc, you will find ourself on the way out. Sure, you can try and reach out to other partners in different groups, but they have to get the sign off from your siloed group partner. So once the waters are tainted, you are done, despite the firm marketing itself as a place where you can "choose your own path." I'd simply avoid.

If you have the choice of working at a different firm, I'd go there. I lateraled in, thinking it was great, boy was I wrong. Thankfully, I've found a much better firm, better reputation and kinder people. Do yourself a favor.

1950 hours isn’t a lot. Seems fair to put you on a pip.

[Anonymous User]

I am a partner at WSGR and I will note that there have not been "stealth layoffs" - there have been, in my group, performance based terminations. This happens at every firm unfortunately - its a tough job.

I think people forget that people do get fired for performance at law firms. Just because people get fired outside of an announced mass layoff does not mean a firm conducted a "stealth layoff".

Do you think there will be actual layoffs?

Same partner as above.

It has been discussed given that most of our competitors have had layoffs, but the firm decided not to. Things can change, but right now there is no plan to do so.

LOL @ this partner. Was a WSGR associate who was "stealthed." Received a PIP even though I was on pace to bill 1,950 hours. Let's not put lipstick on a pig. I would avoid WSGR at all costs. HR was terrible. Reasons in my PIP were also factually incorrect and despite providing proof, nothing. Terminated. Oh well. Unemployment was nice. Found a better job at higher ranked firm with nicer people. Don't buy into the WSGR kool-aid.

Same partner as above. I am sorry this happened to you, but a single termination isn't evidence of a stealth layoff. Stealth layoffs refer to widespread terminations that aren't disclosed to the rest of the firm.

People get fired for performance at every firm. Many of those people nonetheless bill the bonus target hours. This is not unique to WSGR.

Same "stealthed" WSGR associate as above. Agreed, a single termination isn't evident of a widespread pattern, but, having read through this forum for the past several months, as well as having friends at the firm who have found themselves in a similar position, I would refer to my termination, as well as others I have known in the past several months, as "stealthed."

WSGR markets itself as a firm wherein you can work with great individuals, on "cool" matters, with "groundbreaking" companies. What they don't tell you, however, is that the firm is incredibly siloed. You interview into a group, thinking its "free market," but in reality, that group, and namely, one or two partners, control your destiny. If you don't click, or laugh at their jokes, etc, you will find ourself on the way out. Sure, you can try and reach out to other partners in different groups, but they have to get the sign off from your siloed group partner. So once the waters are tainted, you are done, despite the firm marketing itself as a place where you can "choose your own path." I'd simply avoid.

If you have the choice of working at a different firm, I'd go there. I lateraled in, thinking it was great, boy was I wrong. Thankfully, I've found a much better firm, better reputation and kinder people. Do yourself a favor.

1950 hours isn’t a lot. Seems fair to put you on a pip.

When bonus target/published expectation is 1950, I would disagree. Consensus on this thread appears to be = avoid.

[VentureMBA]

To be fair if you billed 1950 this year I’d say that’s sufficient given the slow down.

Over the last few years 1950 does strike me as low.

[Anonymous User]

WSGR Corporate is notoriously siloed—period.