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where would you rather work?

The Selendy partners have a rep for being unusually hard to work for, Patterson has a rep for being unusually humane, they don’t do the same work but that would be dispositive for me

I think Patterson has the highest likelihood of putting you in the "this place isn't my fit but I want to practice elsewhere camp" whereas Selendy has the highest likelihood of putting you in the "I want to quit practicing law camp." Patterson is also going to have better options for going in-house when you become a mid level or senior.

My impression is that Selendy has more aggressive, intense, and prestige oriented people, whereas Patterson is more chill.

Complete hearsay but I got a weird vibe from Selendy in my interview and ended up not thinking it would be somewhere I wanted to work

What kind of work does each do

Have uniformly bad impressions of the people and culture at Selendy, both from interviews and also stories from people there, but know nothing about Patterson. Honestly I would not go to Selendy unless I truly had no other reasonable options and I had a plan to leave.

Have some personal experience with both firms.

Patterson's reputation for being chill/humane is a bit misplaced: it may be better than other NYC firms, but it's still biglaw with all that entails. But Selendy just seems like an excruciating place to work.

does Patterson pay market? Is there compression at senior levels?

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 16, 2023 11:37 pm

does Patterson pay market? Is there compression at senior levels?

Based on Vault, it looks like they pay market base salary through at 6th year and then you get hit by compression. No clue about bonuses, though, but full bonus hours are 1,850. This is the tradeoff that you have to accept going to a full service firm that has a large equity partnership (i.e., 30%) and slightly better quality of life.

Sackboy wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 17, 2023 12:14 am

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 16, 2023 11:37 pm

does Patterson pay market? Is there compression at senior levels?

Based on Vault, it looks like they pay market base salary through at 6th year and then you get hit by compression. No clue about bonuses, though, but full bonus hours are 1,850. This is the tradeoff that you have to accept going to a full service firm that has a large equity partnership (i.e., 30%) and slightly better quality of life.

Thank you. Any thoughts on Patterson vs Williams and Connolly (pretending for a second that location does not matter)? Looking for variety, high profile, and substantive experience

Sackboy wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 17, 2023 12:14 am

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 16, 2023 11:37 pm

does Patterson pay market? Is there compression at senior levels?

Based on Vault, it looks like they pay market base salary through at 6th year and then you get hit by compression. No clue about bonuses, though, but full bonus hours are 1,850. This is the tradeoff that you have to accept going to a full service firm that has a large equity partnership (i.e., 30%) and slightly better quality of life.

That's a pretty confusing structure. Market for 6 years, then below market, then higher than typical partnership chances? Unless maybe a partner there makes as much as a senior associate elsewhere.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 17, 2023 1:06 am

Sackboy wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 17, 2023 12:14 am

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 16, 2023 11:37 pm

does Patterson pay market? Is there compression at senior levels?

Based on Vault, it looks like they pay market base salary through at 6th year and then you get hit by compression. No clue about bonuses, though, but full bonus hours are 1,850. This is the tradeoff that you have to accept going to a full service firm that has a large equity partnership (i.e., 30%) and slightly better quality of life.

That's a pretty confusing structure. Market for 6 years, then below market, then higher than typical partnership chances? Unless maybe a partner there makes as much as a senior associate elsewhere.

It's probably higher than a major Big Law firm but your chances of partnership there are still pretty slim. They are perfectly content to park you at counsel or senior associate indefinitely until you decide to leave.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 17, 2023 12:27 am

Sackboy wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 17, 2023 12:14 am

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 16, 2023 11:37 pm

does Patterson pay market? Is there compression at senior levels?

Based on Vault, it looks like they pay market base salary through at 6th year and then you get hit by compression. No clue about bonuses, though, but full bonus hours are 1,850. This is the tradeoff that you have to accept going to a full service firm that has a large equity partnership (i.e., 30%) and slightly better quality of life.

Thank you. Any thoughts on Patterson vs Williams and Connolly (pretending for a second that location does not matter)? Looking for variety, high profile, and substantive experience

they do different work - if you want appellate or white collar, I'd go to williams because Patterson doesnt do much appellate and even less white collar. otherwise, I'd go to patterson because of better lifestyle, higher pay at midlevels. If you want to do a lot of pro bono I'd also go to Patterson. I do feel like they are otherwise comparable in terms of "prestige"/competitiveness and type of firm they are - one office firms with a few hundred attorneys, litigation only, mostly fed clerks, so it is a good comparison

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 17, 2023 1:06 am

Sackboy wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 17, 2023 12:14 am

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 16, 2023 11:37 pm

does Patterson pay market? Is there compression at senior levels?

Based on Vault, it looks like they pay market base salary through at 6th year and then you get hit by compression. No clue about bonuses, though, but full bonus hours are 1,850. This is the tradeoff that you have to accept going to a full service firm that has a large equity partnership (i.e., 30%) and slightly better quality of life.

That's a pretty confusing structure. Market for 6 years, then below market, then higher than typical partnership chances? Unless maybe a partner there makes as much as a senior associate elsewhere.

Why is this structure confusing?

They pay market (salaries, at least) for the first 6 years to attract talent. Then, when you get to the senior associate years, you're already making a lot of money and probably have your loans paid off, so they can start compression but also give you the "we offer a better QoL" and "well, you'll actually be able to make partner here" lines. PBWT is 30% equity partners, and their PPP is about $2M, so that can be an enticing pitch. Many biglaw firms are at about 15% these days (and some abysmally low at about 10%). A large partnership at a biglaw firm is typically 20%. 30% is a considerable increase and a little more than giving you "pretty slim" odds. This is a different structure that some firms choose to run with. You can find similar stories in at least D.C., Chicago, and San Francisco. These firms typically provide a 20-30% discount on biglaw rates and aim to sell their business to associates as a work life balance that is also 20-30% better than biglaw and where everyone hired has a real chance at becoming an equity partner. For whatever reason, they have not tried to emulate the high leverage and increasingly gated equity partner model. Whatever you may think of it, it seems to be successful, because PBWT and similar firms elsewhere around the country have no problem recruiting and generally retaining T14 grads with honors.

Biglaw litigation partner. This is 100% right. Selendy is a firm (similar to many top-tier boutiques) that offers above-market compensation in exchange for very high hours, intense culture, and a focus on trying cases (which is by far the most stressful part of being a litigator). In contrast, there are a number of firms out there--including quasi-boutiques like PBWT, W&C, and MTO, as well as some larger firms like Jenner--that have PEP around $2 million, pay their associates at or below market, and pitch themselves based on some combination of intellectual/pleasant culture, sophisticated work, (relatively) realistic partnership odds, and (relatively) humane hours. This is not a very attractive pitch to people who want to make a ton of money and pay off their loans quickly before transitioning out of private practice, but it is an extremely attractive pitch for many people who want to stay in high-end private practice for the long-term.

Also, for what it's worth, I think very highly of PBWT. The lawyers I have dealt with there are both very talented and very pleasant, at least in my experience. I had several classmates work there and they all generally had positive things to say about it.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 17, 2023 1:06 am

Sackboy wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 17, 2023 12:14 am

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 16, 2023 11:37 pm

does Patterson pay market? Is there compression at senior levels?

Based on Vault, it looks like they pay market base salary through at 6th year and then you get hit by compression. No clue about bonuses, though, but full bonus hours are 1,850. This is the tradeoff that you have to accept going to a full service firm that has a large equity partnership (i.e., 30%) and slightly better quality of life.

That's a pretty confusing structure. Market for 6 years, then below market, then higher than typical partnership chances? Unless maybe a partner there makes as much as a senior associate elsewhere.

This is a relatively common structure for litigation firms. Unlike in corporate, a lot of litigators want to be in private practice indefinitely and are willing to trade associate comp for partnership prospects and hours. Especially since top litigators choose their firms a few years later due to clerkships, meaning they may have families on the horizon, less concern for Vault, etc. PPP obviously isn’t Wachtell and partnership comp may be heavily EWYK, making it easier to make partners.

Anyone know what Patterson is looking for in new hires? They seem to hire more lawyers without clerkships these days, just looking at LinkedIn

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 18, 2023 7:13 pm

Anyone know what Patterson is looking for in new hires? They seem to hire more lawyers without clerkships these days, just looking at LinkedIn

they only hire 3Ls and out of clerkships

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 19, 2023 8:45 am

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 18, 2023 7:13 pm

Anyone know what Patterson is looking for in new hires? They seem to hire more lawyers without clerkships these days, just looking at LinkedIn

they only hire 3Ls and out of clerkships

Doesn’t seem to be the case looking on LinkedIn…

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 19, 2023 8:45 am

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 18, 2023 7:13 pm

Anyone know what Patterson is looking for in new hires? They seem to hire more lawyers without clerkships these days, just looking at LinkedIn

they only hire 3Ls and out of clerkships

There’s been some talk of bringing back a summer program, but I don’t know the status of that given the economy.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 19, 2023 8:45 am

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 18, 2023 7:13 pm

Anyone know what Patterson is looking for in new hires? They seem to hire more lawyers without clerkships these days, just looking at LinkedIn

they only hire 3Ls and out of clerkships

I see at least a few people who joined recently after a year or so at another firm

How typical is weekend work at Patterson? Usually none, usually a few hours, usually a full day?

Sackboy wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 14, 2023 12:44 pm

I think Patterson has the highest likelihood of putting you in the "this place isn't my fit but I want to practice elsewhere camp" whereas Selendy has the highest likelihood of putting you in the "I want to quit practicing law camp."

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