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Current 3L. Have an offer to be an assistant prosecutor in a rural area/small town for ~$60k (but could live at home) and one with a mid-sized civil defense firm in a medium-sized city starting at $85k after graduation/hopefully passing bar. The firm job requires 1850 billable hrs; however, I think it's an across-the-board requirement, so it wouldn't increase after the first year if I understand correctly and whatever you bill counts and isn't docked down. The civil firm does products liability, commercial, toxic tort, trucking cases, some med mal, premises liability, etc. I probably see myself doing plaintiff PI long term, but I didn't really get any trial/practical experience in law school so I don't know which offer to take. My main worry with the prosecutor job is that it might be boring/not very intellectually stimulating, and that if I would get trial experience with the civil firm anyway, then there's not much advantage long term. The hours might be kinda high for a first year but I wouldn't commute very far most likely.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 07, 2023 12:52 am

Current 3L. Have an offer to be an assistant prosecutor in a rural area/small town for ~$60k (but could live at home) and one with a mid-sized civil defense firm in a medium-sized city starting at $85k after graduation/hopefully passing bar. The firm job requires 1850 billable hrs; however, I think it's an across-the-board requirement, so it wouldn't increase after the first year if I understand correctly and whatever you bill counts and isn't docked down. The civil firm does products liability, toxic tort, trucking cases, some med mal, premises liability, etc. I probably see myself doing plaintiff PI long term, but I didn't really get any trial/practical experience in law school so I don't know which offer to take. My main worry with the prosecutor job is that it might be boring/not very intellectually stimulating, and that if I would get trial experience with the civil firm anyway, then there's not much advantage long term. The hours might be kinda high for a first year but I wouldn't commute very far most likely.

Boring is definitely in the eye of the beholder. But I'd say that if you want to do plaintiff's PI long term, the content of the civil defense job is probably going to be more valuable; you'll get much more trial experience as a prosecutor, but it will all be criminal and it's not clear that you'd go to trial very often on the civil side anyway. I guess my question is whether working for a civil defense firm will carry any baggage if you want to go plaintiffs' side, though I don't think that's terribly likely.

Interesting fork in the road you have here. I'm a senior litigator who had almost exactly the same fork, and I went the civil law firm route. I don't harbor regrets but I have a perspective to offer now.

If you go to the law firm, you can count on acquiring zero trial experience. You can get lucky but most associates do not, and even if you get lucky, having a one-off random trial is not much of an experience. It's better than nothing but it will not make you a trial lawyer, at all.

Don't fall for the brainwashing of American lawyers that 1850 hours is not a lot. Our billable hour culture has spiraled completely out of control. 1850 is better than the 2400 you might be expected to bill in New York City, but 1850 is still plenty. You will work weekends, not because you like the work but because you have to satisfy the quota. You will take no real vacations. You might take a three-day weekend here and there. After 5 years at the firm, maybe you'll work up the courage to take one one-week vacation once, and barely enjoy it because you'll be fielding emails and phone calls the whole time. That will be your life. 1850 is not suicide-inducing like 2400 is but it is still joy-destroying.

Boring? In a small town DA's office, you might be handling serious felony cases quickly, including sexual assault, murder, and white collar crimes. You'll become a trial lawyer quickly. If you don't like it, you can switch to a different career track. The key is to keep your mind open and not let it get too shuttered in to your criminal law world. Remain curious about other practice areas. You know what's boring? Sitting through 8-hour product liability depositions. *vomit*

Take the DA job if money isn’t a factor. So many successful attorneys start out there and it’s easy to switch to PI, especially after you have some trials under your belt.

Just want to chime in to say maybe I’ve been indoctrinated but I don’t find 1850 to be all that bad. A general rule I’d say is every month that you bill 180+ is a bad month. So for 1850 you shouldn’t have many 180s unless you have lots of low months too.

ughbugchugplug wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 08, 2023 9:32 pm

Just want to chime in to say maybe I’ve been indoctrinated but I don’t find 1850 to be all that bad. A general rule I’d say is every month that you bill 180+ is a bad month. So for 1850 you shouldn’t have many 180s unless you have lots of low months too.

1850 = 38 hours per week assuming zero vacation days. I worked at firms with much higher billable requirements than that, yes, but I also worked at an 1800 hour firm, and it's still a lot when the 38 is required week, after week, after week, after week. And that is, of course, just the bare minimum to be deemed competent. (Did I mention the zero-vacation assumption?)

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 09, 2023 12:19 am

ughbugchugplug wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 08, 2023 9:32 pm

Just want to chime in to say maybe I’ve been indoctrinated but I don’t find 1850 to be all that bad. A general rule I’d say is every month that you bill 180+ is a bad month. So for 1850 you shouldn’t have many 180s unless you have lots of low months too.

1850 = 38 hours per week assuming zero vacation days. I worked at firms with much higher billable requirements than that, yes, but I also worked at an 1800 hour firm, and it's still a lot when the 38 is required week, after week, after week, after week. And that is, of course, just the bare minimum to be deemed competent. (Did I mention the zero-vacation assumption?)

I know lawyers "don't do math," but this is pretty egregious. Assuming zero vacation days means you're working all 52 weeks of the year, 38 hours per week is 1,976 hours a year. If you're going to work every week of the year, you could bill 35.6 hours per week and get to 1,850. If you're a more sane person and want to take a couple of weeks of vacation, 37 hours a week will get you to 1,850.

I'd take the DA gig. If you don't like it, after a year or two you can always go to another mid-sized firm. As others have said, this way you'll actually get trial experience too

trebekismyhero wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 09, 2023 12:51 pm

I'd take the DA gig. If you don't like it, after a year or two you can always go to another mid-sized firm. As others have said, this way you'll actually get trial experience too

I ended up taking the firm gig before seeing these posts. I guess I'll never be a trial lawyer.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 10, 2023 1:30 am

trebekismyhero wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 09, 2023 12:51 pm

I'd take the DA gig. If you don't like it, after a year or two you can always go to another mid-sized firm. As others have said, this way you'll actually get trial experience too

I ended up taking the firm gig before seeing these posts. I guess I'll never be a trial lawyer.

Haha! I went the civil litigation route too, with a law firm, and did end up being a trial lawyer. But I got kind of lucky. 8 years of private practice trying to get into jury trials with only 1 trial to show for it. But then I jumped over into government civil litigation. *NOW* I'm a trial lawyer. 99% of your work even if you are a "trial lawyer" in civil matters is still just civil litigation crap.