Sub 3.0 GPA at T14 - Am I Screwed for Big law -IP Forum

[Anonymous User]

OP would you mind sharing which markets you'd be willing to aim for? Perhaps we can crowdsource firms with looser GPA requirements for you to target.

Also, are you going to do the Loyola IP job fair? You have a much higher chance of scoring interviews there, especially since there are fewer T14 students that attend. Some of my T14 colleagues with lower GPAs landed interviews with firms there that they had no chance of getting through typical OCI.

[Anonymous User]

OP here.

Thanks a lot for the support. I'm really happy for all the advice here.

1, I'm aiming for prosecution because, Well , I eventually plan start my own firm (10-15 years down the line) and patent prosecution is an area where I do have a shot in making it successful on my own . I'm a naturally introverted engineer and try to avoid confrontation. My preferred kind of work includes just sitting down and analyzing stuff, so I think prosecution works,

2, Pyper is my OCP counselor. I think we do connect well, but there was some advice which I was given, I counted on it for my 1L summer job, and it literally just fell apart. She means well, and she does put in effort, but there is so much what she can do. Kind of paid a price for relying on her advice. I still think she is awesome, but I don't rely on her that much anymore.

3, We do get free registration for PLIP through OCP, and I have signed up for it. I definitely plan to be there

4, I have expanded the market. Me and my wife used to do a long distance thing 7 years ago. I was working in Indianapolis and she in Detroit. I think we can have a similar arrangement for 2-3 years after graduation. So, with the biglaw money, I hope to do this
4a, Expand markets to Chicago, Indianapolis, Columbus, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Milwaukee, Toronto. These places are a quick 1-2 hour flight or a 4-6 hour drive from Detroit.
4b, Do weekly visits and hire a nanny till I can lateral back here, in 2 years.
4c, Live like a college student (roomates etc) in whichever big law city I'm in so that I can afford the loans as well as the nanny. If the flights tend to get expensive, I Drive.
4e, Wife might move to Chicago. She still loves her big 3 automotive job in Detroit, but all the restructuring is wearing her love for autos. She could get a job in Chicago & only Chicago. Does not want to go to any other midwest city.


What are the firms I could target? I need to connect with fellow IP students too, I have no idea what everyone else is doing . I live away from campus.

[Anonymous User]

What are the firms I could target? I need to connect with fellow IP students too, I have no idea what everyone else is doing . I live away from campus.

Start networking with at least the following firms:

Harness IP
Honigman
Brooks Kushman
Dickinson Wright
Young Basile
Fishman Stewart
Reising Etherington

That list isn't exhaustive but it covers most of the larger prosecution practices in the Detroit metro area. (Not from the area myself but know a few folks in the area.) A lot of prosecution practices are going remote-only as well, so start seeking those firms out too.

If you haven't already, start networking with folks in the Detroit regional office of the USPTO. Since you're considering going solo anyway, working as an examiner for a few years first might be a good option. Also talk to the folks in UM's tech transfer office (and if you can get an internship there either over the summer or as part of a clinic next year, do it).

While you're doing all of that--and I know I'm putting a lot on your plate here--get your reg number. I was involved in hiring at a patent law firm, and I can tell you that a reg number carries a lot more weight on a resume than "patent bar eligible." I liked seeing that folks were committed to patent law and had the initiative to go out on their own and pass the patent bar without prompting.

Finally, re: possible long-distance plans, I don't purport to give you advice on your personal situation, but I was a patent prosecution junior associate once. You will be surprised at how many firedrills even patent prosecution junior associates have to handle. (E.g., client who wants international protection is demoing their product at a tradeshow in two days and needs a full U.S. provisional with fake claims on file ASAP.) I suspect you'll prefer not having the additional stress of long distance.

[Anonymous User]

What are the firms I could target? I need to connect with fellow IP students too, I have no idea what everyone else is doing . I live away from campus.

Start networking with at least the following firms:

Harness IP
Honigman
Brooks Kushman
Dickinson Wright
Young Basile
Fishman Stewart
Reising Etherington

That list isn't exhaustive but it covers most of the larger prosecution practices in the Detroit metro area. (Not from the area myself but know a few folks in the area.) A lot of prosecution practices are going remote-only as well, so start seeking those firms out too.

If you haven't already, start networking with folks in the Detroit regional office of the USPTO. Since you're considering going solo anyway, working as an examiner for a few years first might be a good option. Also talk to the folks in UM's tech transfer office (and if you can get an internship there either over the summer or as part of a clinic next year, do it).

While you're doing all of that--and I know I'm putting a lot on your plate here--get your reg number. I was involved in hiring at a patent law firm, and I can tell you that a reg number carries a lot more weight on a resume than "patent bar eligible." I liked seeing that folks were committed to patent law and had the initiative to go out on their own and pass the patent bar without prompting.

Finally, re: possible long-distance plans, I don't purport to give you advice on your personal situation, but I was a patent prosecution junior associate once. You will be surprised at how many firedrills even patent prosecution junior associates have to handle. (E.g., client who wants international protection is demoing their product at a tradeshow in two days and needs a full U.S. provisional with fake claims on file ASAP.) I suspect you'll prefer not having the additional stress of long distance.

A few additional comments:

I wouldn't discount some of the larger, more prestigious boutiques like Fish, especially if you're willing to go to a larger but less desirable office. As a general rule, bid IP-only firms at OCI and general practice firms at PLIP. At my T14, Fish interviewed pretty much everybody qualified for pros. But you'll have more competition for the general practice firms at OCI vs. PLIP.

You might also aim for the Ohio offices of Jones Day - I know they dig deeper into T14 GPA bands for some offices outside of DC/NY/etc. Don't get your hopes up, but spread your net wide. You also might try Nixon Peabody and Banner Witcoff in Chicago (I'm not from there but I know they were easier to land in other cities).

Yes to reg number. I'd say it's a must have with lower grades.

Re: Detroit regional office, you might also consider opportunities at the PTAB. I know they have a clerk program, though I don't know how competitive it is. I worked with someone who started there and then made his way to a V30. I don't know what his grades were and TBH he was probably the worst associate I've ever worked with, but the firm seemed to like his PTAB clerking credential. Not implying the PTAB job made him bad, to be clear.

I did long distance my first year and a half in biglaw (flights were about an hour in the air) doing both pros/lit. It's a challenge for sure, but doable if you're intentional about it (though I didn't have kids at the time...). As the above poster suggested, I actually had more fire drills on my pros docket than with lit. I found it was easier to take super early flights since fire drills rarely happen at 7am in the morning. I also did a lot of Thursday evening through Tuesday morning trips to give me more time and avoid the high price/busy flights. Try to live close to the airport - it will make things a lot easier for you.