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No. For me, assuming a median bonus, we are talking about more like $25,000.ChickenSalad wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 5:26 amI can’t imagine how a prorated bonus would make a difference even on the margins.
The second year bonus is like 15k. Even if a firm offers a stub bonus and even if it’s the same for first years, prorated it’s like 3k before taxes. Are you picking a firm based on that?
If you can get an offer from somewhere like Susman, I’d take it but that isn’t the reason why
It should not play any factor in your decision-making, not even at the margins.
Yes, my pre-clerkships firm certainly paid 1/4 of the year-end bonus--which was significant for people who had done several clerkships--to new starts who'd been there for three months.
One of two things is going on here.theneuro wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 11:40 amNo. For me, assuming a median bonus, we are talking about more like $25,000.ChickenSalad wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 5:26 amI can’t imagine how a prorated bonus would make a difference even on the margins.
The second year bonus is like 15k. Even if a firm offers a stub bonus and even if it’s the same for first years, prorated it’s like 3k before taxes. Are you picking a firm based on that?
If you can get an offer from somewhere like Susman, I’d take it but that isn’t the reason why
Ah, I thought “stub year” meant the year where you start at a firm with all your fellow new associates. So at a litigation boutique, where the bulk of those in the new class of associates starting that year are coming off clerkships, I thought that “stub year” meant the first year at the firm—where you’re at the firm for only three months along with everyone else in your “starting class.” Is that not a stub year?ChickenSalad wrote: ↑Fri Dec 23, 2022 9:16 pmOne of two things is going on here.theneuro wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 11:40 amNo. For me, assuming a median bonus, we are talking about more like $25,000.ChickenSalad wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 5:26 amI can’t imagine how a prorated bonus would make a difference even on the margins.
The second year bonus is like 15k. Even if a firm offers a stub bonus and even if it’s the same for first years, prorated it’s like 3k before taxes. Are you picking a firm based on that?
If you can get an offer from somewhere like Susman, I’d take it but that isn’t the reason why
A. You mean “stub year” to mean what it actually does— first year attorneys who start around Oct 1 give or take depending on the firm. In that case, a 15k (or even 25k) bonus is prorated and you’d be getting 1/4 of that before taxes. So 4-5k pre-tax.
B. You mean “stub year” to mean a lateral of any year who joins mid year. I don’t understand why you’d mean this but sure if you’re, say, a 4th year joining in June you’d get a prorated bonus at the end of the year. So I dunno, ~25k pretax?
If you mean A, then very few firms offer a prorated bonus to lawyers who have been practicing for three months. Even if they do, it would be 5k-ish before tax. So not relevant to choosing firms
If you mean B, then yeah every firm does that. You’d get a prorated bonus. Which is why it shouldn’t factor into your decision about choosing between law firms
I suspect you are ignoring what “prorated” means
I’ve found that firms who do things like this (stub year bonus, extra 5k starting salary to “beat market,” ect) are usually doing it to compensate for some competitive disadvantage in later years. So you make a little more as a first year, but at fifth you are 40k behind market (or something like that).
Stub year as I have always heard it refers to the four months or so first year associates work at the firm after they graduate and take the bar until the new year begins. Then the next year they are there for a full year is their “first year.”theneuro wrote: ↑Sat Dec 24, 2022 3:16 amAh, I thought “stub year” meant the year where you start at a firm with all your fellow new associates. So at a litigation boutique, where the bulk of those in the new class of associates starting that year are coming off clerkships, I thought that “stub year” meant the first year at the firm—where you’re at the firm for only three months along with everyone else in your “starting class.” Is that not a stub year?ChickenSalad wrote: ↑Fri Dec 23, 2022 9:16 pmOne of two things is going on here.theneuro wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 11:40 amNo. For me, assuming a median bonus, we are talking about more like $25,000.ChickenSalad wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 5:26 amI can’t imagine how a prorated bonus would make a difference even on the margins.
The second year bonus is like 15k. Even if a firm offers a stub bonus and even if it’s the same for first years, prorated it’s like 3k before taxes. Are you picking a firm based on that?
If you can get an offer from somewhere like Susman, I’d take it but that isn’t the reason why
A. You mean “stub year” to mean what it actually does— first year attorneys who start around Oct 1 give or take depending on the firm. In that case, a 15k (or even 25k) bonus is prorated and you’d be getting 1/4 of that before taxes. So 4-5k pre-tax.
B. You mean “stub year” to mean a lateral of any year who joins mid year. I don’t understand why you’d mean this but sure if you’re, say, a 4th year joining in June you’d get a prorated bonus at the end of the year. So I dunno, ~25k pretax?
If you mean A, then very few firms offer a prorated bonus to lawyers who have been practicing for three months. Even if they do, it would be 5k-ish before tax. So not relevant to choosing firms
If you mean B, then yeah every firm does that. You’d get a prorated bonus. Which is why it shouldn’t factor into your decision about choosing between law firms
I suspect you are ignoring what “prorated” means
Ah, then I am mistaken and the cause of the confusion!Bosque wrote: ↑Sat Dec 24, 2022 2:31 pmStub year as I have always heard it refers to the four months or so first year associates work at the firm after they graduate and take the bar until the new year begins. Then the next year they are there for a full year is their “first year.”theneuro wrote: ↑Sat Dec 24, 2022 3:16 amAh, I thought “stub year” meant the year where you start at a firm with all your fellow new associates. So at a litigation boutique, where the bulk of those in the new class of associates starting that year are coming off clerkships, I thought that “stub year” meant the first year at the firm—where you’re at the firm for only three months along with everyone else in your “starting class.” Is that not a stub year?ChickenSalad wrote: ↑Fri Dec 23, 2022 9:16 pmOne of two things is going on here.theneuro wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 11:40 amNo. For me, assuming a median bonus, we are talking about more like $25,000.ChickenSalad wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 5:26 amI can’t imagine how a prorated bonus would make a difference even on the margins.
The second year bonus is like 15k. Even if a firm offers a stub bonus and even if it’s the same for first years, prorated it’s like 3k before taxes. Are you picking a firm based on that?
If you can get an offer from somewhere like Susman, I’d take it but that isn’t the reason why
A. You mean “stub year” to mean what it actually does— first year attorneys who start around Oct 1 give or take depending on the firm. In that case, a 15k (or even 25k) bonus is prorated and you’d be getting 1/4 of that before taxes. So 4-5k pre-tax.
B. You mean “stub year” to mean a lateral of any year who joins mid year. I don’t understand why you’d mean this but sure if you’re, say, a 4th year joining in June you’d get a prorated bonus at the end of the year. So I dunno, ~25k pretax?
If you mean A, then very few firms offer a prorated bonus to lawyers who have been practicing for three months. Even if they do, it would be 5k-ish before tax. So not relevant to choosing firms
If you mean B, then yeah every firm does that. You’d get a prorated bonus. Which is why it shouldn’t factor into your decision about choosing between law firms
I suspect you are ignoring what “prorated” means
A clerk coming on board would not be in a stub year, nor would a lateral. They are just in whatever year they are classified as.