DC litigation Forum

[Anonymous User]

Currently clerking on 2/9/DC. Conservative. Looking to practice in DC post-clerkship. Interested in a mix of appellate, admin/regulatory, securities, and commercial lit.

Based on the above, thoughts on whether I should prioritize or avoid any of the following (or how they rank against each other in terms of reputation in the city, quality of work, culture, etc.)? Kirkland, Wilmer, Gibson, Latham, Williams & Connolly.

[Anonymous User]

Currently clerking on 2/9/DC. Conservative. Looking to practice in DC post-clerkship. Interested in a mix of appellate, admin/regulatory, securities, and commercial lit.

Based on the above, thoughts on whether I should prioritize or avoid any of the following (or how they rank against each other in terms of reputation in the city, quality of work, culture, etc.)? Kirkland, Wilmer, Gibson, Latham, Williams & Connolly.

Latham DC office has great culture. Office space is an issue, but otherwise I'd absolutely recommend. - Latham DC associate

[Anonymous User]

Also just generally curious as a fellow clerk, but how does one usually apply for these types of jobs? Some firms, such a Latham, do not appear to have a dedicated POC for clerkship hires.

[Anonymous User]

Currently clerking on 2/9/DC. Conservative. Looking to practice in DC post-clerkship. Interested in a mix of appellate, admin/regulatory, securities, and commercial lit.

Based on the above, thoughts on whether I should prioritize or avoid any of the following (or how they rank against each other in terms of reputation in the city, quality of work, culture, etc.)? Kirkland, Wilmer, Gibson, Latham, Williams & Connolly.

Gibson sounds like the overall best fit, followed by Latham. If you want to gain trial skills Williams & Connolly could be your best option, but its appellate team is small and hard to break into (and 2/9/DC isn't really a thing outside TLS). Kirkland lost its whole appeals group and is Kirkland. You could also consider applying to Kellogg Hansen and some of the conservative litigation boutiques like Cooper & Kirk and Consovoy McCarthy.

[Anonymous User]

Seconding that Latham DC is a good and humane place to work. It’s also possible to get appeals there with your credentials and they hire conservatives (and liberals). Out of your list I would pick it or Gibson.

On the other recs on this thread I have heard decidedly bad things about working at Kellogg. Consovoy definitely doesn’t have the practice mix you’re looking for but Cooper is closer.

[Anonymous User]

OP here. Thanks for all the helpful insights. Any word on what it’s like to be an associate at Gibson DC?

Also interested in hearing more about the issues at Kellogg; it was initially at the top of my list, but several people have told me it’s a pretty brutal sweatshop now (if it wasn’t always, IDK).

How does one get into Cooper? Seems entirely connections-driven, no?

[Anonymous User]

Seconding that Latham DC is a good and humane place to work. It’s also possible to get appeals there with your credentials and they hire conservatives (and liberals). Out of your list I would pick it or Gibson.

On the other recs on this thread I have heard decidedly bad things about working at Kellogg. Consovoy definitely doesn’t have the practice mix you’re looking for but Cooper is closer.

What are the bad things other than the famously long hours?

[Anonymous User]

Seconding that Latham DC is a good and humane place to work. It’s also possible to get appeals there with your credentials and they hire conservatives (and liberals). Out of your list I would pick it or Gibson.

On the other recs on this thread I have heard decidedly bad things about working at Kellogg. Consovoy definitely doesn’t have the practice mix you’re looking for but Cooper is closer.

What are the bad things other than the famously long hours?

Apparently pretty asocial, long hours + closed door culture where no one talks.

[Anonymous User]

Seconding that Latham DC is a good and humane place to work. It’s also possible to get appeals there with your credentials and they hire conservatives (and liberals). Out of your list I would pick it or Gibson.

On the other recs on this thread I have heard decidedly bad things about working at Kellogg. Consovoy definitely doesn’t have the practice mix you’re looking for but Cooper is closer.

What are the bad things other than the famously long hours?

Apparently pretty asocial, long hours + closed door culture where no one talks.

+1

[Anonymous User]

Any insight into the culture at Gibson DC?

[Anonymous User]

Currently clerking on 2/9/DC. Conservative. Looking to practice in DC post-clerkship. Interested in a mix of appellate, admin/regulatory, securities, and commercial lit.

Based on the above, thoughts on whether I should prioritize or avoid any of the following (or how they rank against each other in terms of reputation in the city, quality of work, culture, etc.)? Kirkland, Wilmer, Gibson, Latham, Williams & Connolly.

Why are you not considering Covington?

[Anonymous User]

Currently clerking on 2/9/DC. Conservative. Looking to practice in DC post-clerkship. Interested in a mix of appellate, admin/regulatory, securities, and commercial lit.

Based on the above, thoughts on whether I should prioritize or avoid any of the following (or how they rank against each other in terms of reputation in the city, quality of work, culture, etc.)? Kirkland, Wilmer, Gibson, Latham, Williams & Connolly.

Gibson sounds like the overall best fit, followed by Latham. If you want to gain trial skills Williams & Connolly could be your best option, but its appellate team is small and hard to break into (and 2/9/DC isn't really a thing outside TLS). Kirkland lost its whole appeals group and is Kirkland. You could also consider applying to Kellogg Hansen and some of the conservative litigation boutiques like Cooper & Kirk and Consovoy McCarthy.

A few things wrong here.

It's not hard to break into W&C's appellate team if you can do good work and have the right background (which OP does have).

Kirkland still has an appeals group, and it still does interesting work -- just not some of the headline-grabbing work Clement brought in.

Finally, however much the other poster would like to believe otherwise, LOL, 2/9/DC is definitely a thing outside TLS. Where do you think TLS came up with it? Concern with prestige permeates the law.

[Anonymous User]

Currently clerking on 2/9/DC. Conservative. Looking to practice in DC post-clerkship. Interested in a mix of appellate, admin/regulatory, securities, and commercial lit.

Based on the above, thoughts on whether I should prioritize or avoid any of the following (or how they rank against each other in terms of reputation in the city, quality of work, culture, etc.)? Kirkland, Wilmer, Gibson, Latham, Williams & Connolly.

Gibson sounds like the overall best fit, followed by Latham. If you want to gain trial skills Williams & Connolly could be your best option, but its appellate team is small and hard to break into (and 2/9/DC isn't really a thing outside TLS). Kirkland lost its whole appeals group and is Kirkland. You could also consider applying to Kellogg Hansen and some of the conservative litigation boutiques like Cooper & Kirk and Consovoy McCarthy.

A few things wrong here.

It's not hard to break into W&C's appellate team if you can do good work and have the right background (which OP does have).

Kirkland still has an appeals group, and it still does interesting work -- just not some of the headline-grabbing work Clement brought in.

Finally, however much the other poster would like to believe otherwise, LOL, 2/9/DC is definitely a thing outside TLS. Where do you think TLS came up with it? Concern with prestige permeates the law.

Respectfully, these responses suggest a lack of familiarity with the shorthand used in appellate practice. When I said it's hard to break into Williams & Connolly's appellate team, I didn't mean that it's hard to do work on appellate briefs. Rather, I meant that it's hard to work with Lisa Blatt and Sarah Harris on the firm's flagship SCOTUS cases. When I said Kirkland lost its appeals group, I didn't mean Kirkland never handles appeals. Rather, I meant Paul Clement and Erin Murphy's exit left Kirkland with an understaffed B-team heavily reliant on John O'Quinn's less-than-sexy IP work. And when I said 2/9/DC isn't a thing, I didn't mean prestige is irrelevant. Rather, I meant that 2/9/DC is a non-proxy for prestige in elite appellate circles, especially for conservatives.

[Anonymous User]

Former Gibson associate with a similar practice. Gibson has top-tier appellate and admin/regulatory groups, and lots of very interesting commercial litigation cases (I didn't do securities litigation, but heard good things from associates who did). I think the Gibson experience can be a bit person-specific, based on who you work for and on what, but my sense is that associates doing appellate and admin/regulatory work are mostly happy and that the senior associates and partners are mostly good to work with.

[Anonymous User]

Don't Sidley, Hogan, and Jones Day have excellent appellate practices too? Or are they not welcoming to conservatives?

[Anonymous User]

Former Gibson associate with a similar practice. Gibson has top-tier appellate and admin/regulatory groups, and lots of very interesting commercial litigation cases (I didn't do securities litigation, but heard good things from associates who did). I think the Gibson experience can be a bit person-specific, based on who you work for and on what, but my sense is that associates doing appellate and admin/regulatory work are mostly happy and that the senior associates and partners are mostly good to work with.

Isn't Gibson DC a sweatshop?

[Anonymous User]

Don't Sidley, Hogan, and Jones Day have excellent appellate practices too? Or are they not welcoming to conservatives?

Idk about the others but Jones Day DC office is quite conservative, the caveat being that their appellate group is nearly impossible to get into unless you were a SCOTUS clerk or did a feeder clerkship and have the possibility of actually getting a SCOTUS clerkship later on

[Anonymous User]

Semi related, but has anyone heard of any movement for post clerk hiring at any of these firms?

[Anonymous User]

Don't Sidley, Hogan, and Jones Day have excellent appellate practices too? Or are they not welcoming to conservatives?

On the contrary, I've gotten the impression that Sidley DC's appellate group leans conservative (but nowhere as ideological as JD or Gibson). But people with more first-hand knowledge should chime in.

[Anonymous User]

Don't Sidley, Hogan, and Jones Day have excellent appellate practices too? Or are they not welcoming to conservatives?

On the contrary, I've gotten the impression that Sidley DC's appellate group leans conservative (but nowhere as ideological as JD or Gibson). But people with more first-hand knowledge should chime in.

Agreed, the only person I know there is conservative and that was my impression

[Anonymous User]

Don't Sidley, Hogan, and Jones Day have excellent appellate practices too? Or are they not welcoming to conservatives?

Idk about the others but Jones Day DC office is quite conservative, the caveat being that their appellate group is nearly impossible to get into unless you were a SCOTUS clerk or did a feeder clerkship and have the possibility of actually getting a SCOTUS clerkship later on

Does the Issues and Appeals group pay above market for those who come in with just COA clerkships?

[Anonymous User]

Don't Sidley, Hogan, and Jones Day have excellent appellate practices too? Or are they not welcoming to conservatives?

Idk about the others but Jones Day DC office is quite conservative, the caveat being that their appellate group is nearly impossible to get into unless you were a SCOTUS clerk or did a feeder clerkship and have the possibility of actually getting a SCOTUS clerkship later on

Does the Issues and Appeals group pay above market for those who come in with just COA clerkships?

Same Anon youre quoting. Getting hard numbers is damn near impossible for JD, much less so for I&A. There was that one lawsuit that revealed some numbers but I can't seem to find it. Anecdotally the one person I know who is in I&A is a SCOTUS clerk, not DC, and as a senior associate was in the mid to high 6 figures. ($700k<). I am not sure about just COA but I&A is the golden child of JD so I would imagine they are treated very well.

[Anonymous User]

Don't Sidley, Hogan, and Jones Day have excellent appellate practices too? Or are they not welcoming to conservatives?

Idk about the others but Jones Day DC office is quite conservative, the caveat being that their appellate group is nearly impossible to get into unless you were a SCOTUS clerk or did a feeder clerkship and have the possibility of actually getting a SCOTUS clerkship later on

Does the Issues and Appeals group pay above market for those who come in with just COA clerkships?

Same Anon youre quoting. Getting hard numbers is damn near impossible for JD, much less so for I&A. There was that one lawsuit that revealed some numbers but I can't seem to find it. Anecdotally the one person I know who is in I&A is a SCOTUS clerk, not DC, and as a senior associate was in the mid to high 6 figures. ($700k<). I am not sure about just COA but I&A is the golden child of JD so I would imagine they are treated very well.

You won't find many datapoints because I&A only hires 2-3 non-SCOTUS clerks a year. If you're curious, apply and see what they offer you. I'd guess it will be about market absent major plus factors. For the record, the group isn't all conservative the way Cooper & Kirk and Consovoy McCarthy are, but it has become more conservative than it was 5 years ago.

[Anonymous User]

Currently clerking on 2/9/DC. Conservative. Looking to practice in DC post-clerkship. Interested in a mix of appellate, admin/regulatory, securities, and commercial lit.

Based on the above, thoughts on whether I should prioritize or avoid any of the following (or how they rank against each other in terms of reputation in the city, quality of work, culture, etc.)? Kirkland, Wilmer, Gibson, Latham, Williams & Connolly.

Gibson sounds like the overall best fit, followed by Latham. If you want to gain trial skills Williams & Connolly could be your best option, but its appellate team is small and hard to break into (and 2/9/DC isn't really a thing outside TLS). Kirkland lost its whole appeals group and is Kirkland. You could also consider applying to Kellogg Hansen and some of the conservative litigation boutiques like Cooper & Kirk and Consovoy McCarthy.

A few things wrong here.

It's not hard to break into W&C's appellate team if you can do good work and have the right background (which OP does have).

Kirkland still has an appeals group, and it still does interesting work -- just not some of the headline-grabbing work Clement brought in.

Finally, however much the other poster would like to believe otherwise, LOL, 2/9/DC is definitely a thing outside TLS. Where do you think TLS came up with it? Concern with prestige permeates the law.

Respectfully, these responses suggest a lack of familiarity with the shorthand used in appellate practice. When I said it's hard to break into Williams & Connolly's appellate team, I didn't mean that it's hard to do work on appellate briefs. Rather, I meant that it's hard to work with Lisa Blatt and Sarah Harris on the firm's flagship SCOTUS cases. When I said Kirkland lost its appeals group, I didn't mean Kirkland never handles appeals. Rather, I meant Paul Clement and Erin Murphy's exit left Kirkland with an understaffed B-team heavily reliant on John O'Quinn's less-than-sexy IP work. And when I said 2/9/DC isn't a thing, I didn't mean prestige is irrelevant. Rather, I meant that 2/9/DC is a non-proxy for prestige in elite appellate circles, especially for conservatives.

Yeah, 2/9/DC is a thing of the past (with the exception of DC) . Individual judges >> specific circuit (other than DC).

[Anonymous User]

Delete.