EOY Bonuses Forum

[Anonymous User]

Cravath has been a toilet since at least 2019, and one that continually reduces the number of bidets it holds. They offer no above-market bumps despite actual hours expectations being well beyond 2000, and its associates have been out-earned by their counterparts at nearly every V50 for several years now. Their stance is pathetic, yes, but also fucking irrelevant.

I agree. Honestly idk why. They've been objectively doing very well financially, ESP taking into account all the partner departures. Profits and RPL have been increasing year after year. And litigation is apparently killing it this year. Maybe they're being extra conservative to fund their freak DC expansion. Whatever. Screw them lol. Hope DPW/Milbank jumps at the chance to one-up Cravath, even if marginally, just to spite them.

[Anonymous User]

cravath sticking to the baker scale isn’t them being conservative given the dc office runout (lol???) it’s because largeco m&a, which is cravath’s bread and butter, is down and they need to keep pep at whatever internal level and they’re doing so via rate increases.

this stuff isn’t that hard

[Anonymous User]

Today the associates at the V10 I work at received an office-wide email soliciting donations for the staff christmas bonuses. The partner that sent the email included the fact that the “recommended” (mandatory) donation scale is increased this year because of “the very real impact of inflation”.

I feel sure that we will raise Cravath for associate bonuses as a result…. Right guys? Right?

[Anonymous User]

Open reminder that the partnership will give you exactly $0 more than they think they need to to squeeze another year of profits out of you. They don't care about you and they don't care about the economy. You're a widget. That's the basic message from Cravath tonight as they guaranteed that, for most associates, year-over-year compensation will be down 2022 vs. 2021.

[Anonymous User]

Everyone is criticizing Cravath for not raising bonuses, but it's not any different at the roughly 95% of V100 firms that don't pay bonuses meaningfully different from the "market," including my firm. Paul Weiss or Weil Gotshal aren't in a meaningfully different position from Cravath.

[TLSposter1990]

Everyone is criticizing Cravath for not raising bonuses, but it's not any different at the roughly 95% of V100 firms that don't pay bonuses meaningfully different from the "market," including my firm. Paul Weiss or Weil Gotshal aren't in a meaningfully different position from Cravath.

Right, I think that's the point. People like to give Cravath crap because it historically was viewed as a cut above those firms and set/led the market on compensation, but it has not been a leader in either capacity for a number of years now. It is still a great firm, but old habits die hard and so folks in the industry tend to still treat Cravath with a reverence which is no longer justified.

[Anonymous User]

Everyone is criticizing Cravath for not raising bonuses, but it's not any different at the roughly 95% of V100 firms that don't pay bonuses meaningfully different from the "market," including my firm. Paul Weiss or Weil Gotshal aren't in a meaningfully different position from Cravath.

Right, I think that's the point. People like to give Cravath crap because it historically was viewed as a cut above those firms and set/led the market on compensation, but it has not been a leader in either capacity for a number of years now. It is still a great firm, but old habits die hard and so folks in the industry tend to still treat Cravath with a reverence which is no longer justified.

I want to sign onto this because I'm annoyed with Cravath's feeble bonus but it's really not true, is it? Cravath was just responsible for pushing the industry scale to the highest it's ever been. They're still a major market-setter. I'm just thankful DPW and Milbank have joined the fray too to keep things competitive--which means we still have some hope for this bonus season.

[TLSposter1990]

Everyone is criticizing Cravath for not raising bonuses, but it's not any different at the roughly 95% of V100 firms that don't pay bonuses meaningfully different from the "market," including my firm. Paul Weiss or Weil Gotshal aren't in a meaningfully different position from Cravath.

Right, I think that's the point. People like to give Cravath crap because it historically was viewed as a cut above those firms and set/led the market on compensation, but it has not been a leader in either capacity for a number of years now. It is still a great firm, but old habits die hard and so folks in the industry tend to still treat Cravath with a reverence which is no longer justified.

I want to sign onto this because I'm annoyed with Cravath's feeble bonus but it's really not true, is it? Cravath was just responsible for pushing the industry scale to the highest it's ever been. They're still a major market-setter. I'm just thankful DPW and Milbank have joined the fray too to keep things competitive--which means we still have some hope for this bonus season.

You are right, that was a bit harsh. Cravath is obviously still in the conversation in terms of a comp setter, which is why people were disappointed by today's announcement. But its pull is a lot different than it used to be though, which is a good reason to be grateful for the DPWs and Milbanks of the world.

[Anonymous User]

I don’t claim to be 100% across the details, but I find it odd with how quickly everything was changing in the legal market until the 90s/00s, yet since then both lawyers and clients seem reluctant to let go of preconceived ideas concerning the various firms. Cravath may be the largest beneficiary of that type of reputational inertia.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone have an intel on what Cravath 7th years and above are getting?

[Anonymous User]

Everyone is criticizing Cravath for not raising bonuses, but it's not any different at the roughly 95% of V100 firms that don't pay bonuses meaningfully different from the "market," including my firm. Paul Weiss or Weil Gotshal aren't in a meaningfully different position from Cravath.

Right, I think that's the point. People like to give Cravath crap because it historically was viewed as a cut above those firms and set/led the market on compensation, but it has not been a leader in either capacity for a number of years now. It is still a great firm, but old habits die hard and so folks in the industry tend to still treat Cravath with a reverence which is no longer justified.

I want to sign onto this because I'm annoyed with Cravath's feeble bonus but it's really not true, is it? Cravath was just responsible for pushing the industry scale to the highest it's ever been. They're still a major market-setter. I'm just thankful DPW and Milbank have joined the fray too to keep things competitive--which means we still have some hope for this bonus season.

You are right, that was a bit harsh. Cravath is obviously still in the conversation in terms of a comp setter, which is why people were disappointed by today's announcement. But its pull is a lot different than it used to be though, which is a good reason to be grateful for the DPWs and Milbanks of the world.

Cravath deserves no credit. What a nonsense take. Guarantee csms ppp rise beats inflation.

[terpfan12]

Cravath dropped 7th/8th year associates off the scale. Apparently, bonuses will be discussed individually with those associates. Expect the other firms will ignore and follow the Baker scale.

Do we think this means Cravath is subtly trying to push off-track 8th years out or did 8th years all get a raise on the bonus scale and no one else did?

[ChickenSalad]

Cravath dropped 7th/8th year associates off the scale. Apparently, bonuses will be discussed individually with those associates. Expect the other firms will ignore and follow the Baker scale.

Do we think this means Cravath is subtly trying to push off-track 8th years out or did 8th years all get a raise on the bonus scale and no one else did?

It’s not the second reason you ID’d. Sounds like they don’t want to pay six figure bonuses to senior associates so they’re turning it into a black box.

High billers will earn a significant bonus, I’m sure but there’s no way that Cravath is taking 7th and 8th years off the scale because they are paying them more than before

[Anonymous User]

Cravath dropped 7th/8th year associates off the scale. Apparently, bonuses will be discussed individually with those associates. Expect the other firms will ignore and follow the Baker scale.

Do we think this means Cravath is subtly trying to push off-track 8th years out or did 8th years all get a raise on the bonus scale and no one else did?

It’s not the second reason you ID’d. Sounds like they don’t want to pay six figure bonuses to senior associates so they’re turning it into a black box.

High billers will earn a significant bonus, I’m sure but there’s no way that Cravath is taking 7th and 8th years off the scale because they are paying them more than before

Isn’t it just that Cravath has a 7-year partnership track? Some firms don’t pay bonuses when associates are promoted, but I’d think it’s more likely any partnership-track, full-time associates not on the memo are getting a fair amount more than $115,000 rather than less.

[Anonymous User]

Everyone is criticizing Cravath for not raising bonuses, but it's not any different at the roughly 95% of V100 firms that don't pay bonuses meaningfully different from the "market," including my firm. Paul Weiss or Weil Gotshal aren't in a meaningfully different position from Cravath.

Paul Weiss has been paying individual “performance” based bonuses appx every 6 mo for the last 2 years. On top of announced EOY/special bonuses. Unclear how long it will continue and the scale is black box but it’s a good chunk and they paid it for the first half of this year.

[glitched]

Cravath has lost all its prestige and should now be considered the same as DLA Piper.

[Anonymous User]

Cravath dropped 7th/8th year associates off the scale. Apparently, bonuses will be discussed individually with those associates. Expect the other firms will ignore and follow the Baker scale.

Do we think this means Cravath is subtly trying to push off-track 8th years out or did 8th years all get a raise on the bonus scale and no one else did?

It’s not the second reason you ID’d. Sounds like they don’t want to pay six figure bonuses to senior associates so they’re turning it into a black box.

High billers will earn a significant bonus, I’m sure but there’s no way that Cravath is taking 7th and 8th years off the scale because they are paying them more than before

This is a (weird) fantasy. Cravath isn't suddenly going to pay their 7th or 8th years less than other firms in the V25. The move is either neutral or positive. I get we're all angsty about Cravath this morning but we don't need to stretch reason.

[Anonymous User]

Cravath has lost all its prestige and should now be considered the same as DLA Piper.

Generally agree, though that’s a bit extreme. DLA has never led anything except wayward expansion. And pioneering lockstep comp was big news when it started 100 years ago…

[LittleRedCorvette]

Cravath has lost all its prestige and should now be considered the same as DLA Piper.

For everyone who has worked across from Cravath, they were already there long ago.

[Anonymous User]

Sorry, I'm the same guy from last night who was like "member?" As in, "member 9 months ago when Cravath got people more money?" This chart should be a good reminder: https://news.bloomberglaw.com/business- ... up-to-415k And that was just after they raised the base scale at the end of 2021: https://abovethelaw.com/2021/11/first-mover-on-bonus/

I get we all want max comp but people have pretty short memories in this profession lmfao. I think in some ways it's healthier that DPW-Cravath-Milbank are in some sort of dance where they're competing with one another and taking turns trying to one-up; I don't need Cravath alone to constantly set everything about market and if anything that setup was one of the contributors to the compensation stagnation that affected associates for most of the 2010s.

Now remind me of this post in two weeks if DPW and Milbank both announce a match. Because then I'll be a sad panda. But for now I think people are overreacting and if anything Cravath has been conservative because they know one of their two main comp rivals is going to step in next.

Because biglaw partnerships, as short sighted as they can sometimes be, wouldn't settle for letting their associates' year-on-year compensation decrease both in nominal and real terms in a time of rising inflation and stable or modestly positive YoY profit growth, right guys? That would be super demoralizing. And I'm sure they aren't that short-sighted .... Right ????

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

Cravath is definitely a comp leader. And it’s also definitely objectively weird/stupid to give them credit when they ultimately pay so much less than like Fried Frank. Both can be true.

[Anonymous User]

Skadden match with differentiated comp for 2015+ and 2016

[Anonymous User]

Skadden matched baker

[Anonymous User]

Also heard of McDermott match

but curious to know what the details are (hours cutoffs? etc.) for both firms are.

[Anonymous User]

So, so far we have three Baker scale matches: Cravath, Skadden, and McDermott.